Last Call for Christianity

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31 May 2012, 5:09 pm

Sorry if I wasn't clear, there is not a Society of Truth yet. I was hoping to find some people to build it with me, but it doesn't seem like anyone here is.
I envisioned it as not so much an evangelism, but a group of people taking a new approach to faith: You can believe something, but that doesn't mean you can't question it logically. Humans can tell the difference between faith (believing something) and reason (figuring out something), and we can tell which ideas fit into which category. The main difference from other churches is that we make an effort to defend Scripture with reason.
[b]I'm very sorry if that was not intelligible from my first post. I hope you can understand my ideas better now.[b]

edgewaters
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31 May 2012, 5:10 pm

Joker wrote:

The one thing atheists never understand about the religious is very simple. Disproove our religion attack our faith and more people will join our faith and convert to our religion atheists make people more religious.

It's a nice fantasy, but not borne out by the evidence. Religious belief is in decline, over the long scale.

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31 May 2012, 5:12 pm

edgewaters wrote:

Joker wrote:

It's a nice fantasy, but not borne out by the evidence.

Fantasy is more powerful then evidence people have a overwhelming to believe in something. It could be a belief in God or just a afterlife even a political movement belief is a powerful wepon.

edgewaters
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31 May 2012, 5:12 pm

Joker wrote:

Fantasy is more powerful then evidence

Apparently not, or religious belief would show a trend of increase over long periods of time, but what is happening is precisely the opposite.

Quote:

people have a overwhelming to believe in something

People want to make sense of the world around them.

Last edited by edgewaters on 31 May 2012, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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31 May 2012, 5:14 pm

truth15ful wrote:

I'm afraid you lost me concerning using reason to defend scripture. That's in the zone of faith.
And maybe I should explain my comment on evangelicalism. I wasn't talking about evangelism, but evangelical theology, which I still think your future Society of Truth smacks of.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Last edited by Kraichgauer on 31 May 2012, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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31 May 2012, 5:14 pm

Joker wrote:

No offence but this comes across very much like "Mommy, the more you tell me not to pull teddy's ears the more I'm going to do it!"

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Joker
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31 May 2012, 5:15 pm

edgewaters wrote:

Joker wrote:

Fantasy is more powerful then evidence

Apparently not, or religious belief would show a trend of increase over long periods of time, but what is happening is precisely the opposite.

You do relaize how many people convert to a religion each passing day right?"

edgewaters
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31 May 2012, 5:18 pm

Joker wrote:

edgewaters wrote:

Joker wrote:

Fantasy is more powerful then evidence

Apparently not, or religious belief would show a trend of increase over long periods of time, but what is happening is precisely the opposite.

You do relaize how many people convert to a religion each passing day right?"

In the developed world, atheism is by far the fastest growing religious choice.

The statistics you mention mostly reflect birthrates, young children indoctrinated hastily into whatever religion - not any mass wave of conversion. But it keeps the morale up to mislead followers in this way.

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31 May 2012, 5:21 pm

edgewaters wrote:

Joker wrote:

edgewaters wrote:

Joker wrote:

Fantasy is more powerful then evidence

Apparently not, or religious belief would show a trend of increase over long periods of time, but what is happening is precisely the opposite.

You do relaize how many people convert to a religion each passing day right?"

Well we convert our children this is true doesn't mean they will end up being religious. Richard Dawkins was rasied a christian but later became a atheists atheists some times convert to being religious themselfs.

And I didn't bring up a statstic but a fact belief is more powerful then dought. And atheistism is not a religion it most be organzied and have a ideology to be viewed as a religion.

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31 May 2012, 5:24 pm

Joker wrote:

You do relaize how many people convert to a religion each passing day right?"

In Europe churches are falling into disrepair and being demolished because so few people attend them nowadays. Fewer people are getting married in churches and those that do usually just do it for tradition, they don't enter a church again until they do so feet first. Even that is on the decline with more and more people having non-religious funerals followed by cremation. Religion has become irrelevant to the majority of people here. The trend is continuing.

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31 May 2012, 5:28 pm

TallyMan wrote:

Joker wrote:

You do relaize how many people convert to a religion each passing day right?"

Yes of course in Europe this is very true but in South and North America religion is still growing strong. Europe has had to deal with a lot of evil done in the name of religion so I understand how it is declining in Europe.

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02 Jun 2012, 12:44 am

kittie wrote:

What about literature, which is ripe with references to the bible? To properly understand western literature the bible is unavoidable. What about traditions that are in mainstream society today (such as marriage)? What about american politics, where religion is a key component in a president getting elected? Why shouldn't a text of one of the major religions be viewed with interest?

In religious ed I definitely think religious texts of the major religions should be lightly studied. Studied as a text and the impact of the text, not taught "this is correct, believe in this religion". I think shunning the Bible would simply make matters worse and closes a lot of doors intellectually. The destructive thing IMO is taking the bible literally, not the bible itself.

I can understand your concerns, the issue is that the highly negative view is taken more in regard to a present viewpoint that is considered deleterious and something to be dismissed. So, I think Tallyman did actually understand your concerns, but he did not consider them central at the present.(I could be misinterpreting though)

The problem with a religious ed class in the US is that we are likely to have people who say "This is correct, believe this religion", which is why efforts to teach the Bible in high school are something worth opposing, even though many atheists(including Richard Dawkins) are in favor of reading the Bible. It gets messy, and I think most people who are dismissive are probably ok with religious studies if practiced in a manner that is fair to each religion. However, the religion of the Bible is what is being dismissed, as is the theology.

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02 Jun 2012, 1:16 am

Id rather be an athiest than be associated by the likes of people like those of the Westboro Baptist Church.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWzY2Se_3uQ[/youtube] viewers discression is advised. I havent encountered such a dispicible group however I have encountered similar hatred and been told I am a spawn of satan and god hates ret*ds etc. I wish I could punch these kinds of people unfortunatly there is freedom of speech and also I would be charged for assault.

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edgewaters
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02 Jun 2012, 1:22 am

Joker wrote:

It's pretty much the same in most of Canada, except perhaps the more Americanized areas like Alberta. There is only one Western country where this is not the case yet, and that's the US, and even there, the same trend is well underway (if at a much earlier stage).

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02 Jun 2012, 1:37 am

AspieOtaku wrote:

Trust me, if all Christianity was like these idiots, I wouldn't associate with them either.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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02 Jun 2012, 2:46 am

Not to mention churches who do this. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiA5SqU6Fnw&feature=related[/youtube]

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