Will Lady Gaga go to hell?
Ecclesiastes wrote:
I have also noticed that in this world you find wickedness where justice and right ought to be. I told myself, “God is going to judge the righteous and the evil alike, because every thing, every action, will happen at its own set time.” I decided that God is testing us, to show us that we are no better than animals. After all, the same fate awaits human beings and animals alike. One dies just like the other. They are the same kind of creature. A human being is no better off than an animal, because life has no meaning for either. They are both going to the same place—the dust. They both came from it; they will both go back to it. How can anyone be sure that the human spirit goes upward while an animal's spirit goes down into the ground? So I realized then that the best thing we can do is enjoy what we have worked for. There is nothing else we can do. There is no way for us to know what will happen after we die.
... How can anyone know what is best for us in this short, useless life of ours—a life that passes like a shadow? How can we know what will happen in the world after we die?
...No one knows anything about what lies ahead. It makes no difference. The same fate comes to the righteous and the wicked, to the good and the bad, to those who are religious and those who are not, to those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. A good person is no better off than a sinner; one who takes an oath is no better off than one who does not. One fate comes to all alike, and this is as wrong as anything that happens in this world. As long as people live, their minds are full of evil and madness, and suddenly they die. But anyone who is alive in the world of the living has some hope; a live dog is better off than a dead lion. Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten. Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.
Go ahead—eat your food and be happy; drink your wine and be cheerful. It's all right with God. 8 Always look happy and cheerful. 9 Enjoy life with the one you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all you will get for all your trouble. 10 Work hard at whatever you do, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead—and that is where you are going.
...Be grateful for every year you live. No matter how long you live, remember that you will be dead much longer. There is nothing at all to look forward to.
...So remember your Creator while you are still young, before those dismal days and years come when you will say, “I don't enjoy life.” That is when the light of the sun, the moon, and the stars will grow dim for you, and the rain clouds will never pass away. Then your arms, that have protected you, will tremble, and your legs, now strong, will grow weak. Your teeth will be too few to chew your food, and your eyes too dim to see clearly. Your ears will be deaf to the noise of the street. You will barely be able to hear the mill as it grinds or music as it plays, but even the song of a bird will wake you from sleep. You will be afraid of high places, and walking will be dangerous. Your hair will turn white; you will hardly be able to drag yourself along, and all desire will be gone.
We are going to our final resting place, and then there will be mourning in the streets. The silver chain will snap, and the golden lamp will fall and break; the rope at the well will break, and the water jar will be shattered. Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.
"Useless, useless", said the Philosopher. "It is all useless."
... How can anyone know what is best for us in this short, useless life of ours—a life that passes like a shadow? How can we know what will happen in the world after we die?
...No one knows anything about what lies ahead. It makes no difference. The same fate comes to the righteous and the wicked, to the good and the bad, to those who are religious and those who are not, to those who offer sacrifices and those who do not. A good person is no better off than a sinner; one who takes an oath is no better off than one who does not. One fate comes to all alike, and this is as wrong as anything that happens in this world. As long as people live, their minds are full of evil and madness, and suddenly they die. But anyone who is alive in the world of the living has some hope; a live dog is better off than a dead lion. Yes, the living know they are going to die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward; they are completely forgotten. Their loves, their hates, their passions, all died with them. They will never again take part in anything that happens in this world.
Go ahead—eat your food and be happy; drink your wine and be cheerful. It's all right with God. 8 Always look happy and cheerful. 9 Enjoy life with the one you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all you will get for all your trouble. 10 Work hard at whatever you do, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead—and that is where you are going.
...Be grateful for every year you live. No matter how long you live, remember that you will be dead much longer. There is nothing at all to look forward to.
...So remember your Creator while you are still young, before those dismal days and years come when you will say, “I don't enjoy life.” That is when the light of the sun, the moon, and the stars will grow dim for you, and the rain clouds will never pass away. Then your arms, that have protected you, will tremble, and your legs, now strong, will grow weak. Your teeth will be too few to chew your food, and your eyes too dim to see clearly. Your ears will be deaf to the noise of the street. You will barely be able to hear the mill as it grinds or music as it plays, but even the song of a bird will wake you from sleep. You will be afraid of high places, and walking will be dangerous. Your hair will turn white; you will hardly be able to drag yourself along, and all desire will be gone.
We are going to our final resting place, and then there will be mourning in the streets. The silver chain will snap, and the golden lamp will fall and break; the rope at the well will break, and the water jar will be shattered. Our bodies will return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us.
"Useless, useless", said the Philosopher. "It is all useless."
albedo wrote:
I believe under Christian doctrine saying someone will get into Heaven or health is itself a serious sin.
As I'm a non-believer would any theologians confirm this. It is to do with passing Judgment (capital J) which is God's role, in the Abrahamic faiths.
As I'm a non-believer would any theologians confirm this. It is to do with passing Judgment (capital J) which is God's role, in the Abrahamic faiths.
Heres how I see it.
God made Man to live forever on Earth, he was warned he would die if he ate from the tree which he did, God said he would die and go back to dust, not that he would torture him forever as the Catholics and Muslims teach which I believe would make God far more evil than even Hitler.
In the Bible Hell is the Grave, also called Sheol or Hades, its not Gehenna or the Lake of fire though, even Jesus went to Hell for the 3 1/2 days.
When you die you no longer exist until the Resurrection which occurs at the end of Jesus 1000 year reign which starts at his second coming during which time he undoes the damage of Satan and Adams rebellion.
Most people will be judged at the end of the 1000 years once they are resurrected as to wither they will get eternal life which was Gods original purpose, or complete destruction forever by being hurled into the Lake of Fire which ends their existence for ever.
Revelation 20:- 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Christ by his death though, gave us another option, his death pays for our sins if we except it, then we dont get judges because Christ has already paid the price, Romans 8 So now those who belong to Christ Jesus will not be judged.
Now there is Heaven and maybe two sorts of Christians?
There are the "Saints", these are resurrected at the beginning of the 1000 years in what is called the 1st resurrection and they rule with Christ for the 1000 years, these are the ones who will go to Heaven, they are called the Firstfruits, and those that belong to Christ at his second coming.
Revelation 20:-The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
So thats the Saints, they are in Hell until Jesus 2nd coming then they go to Heaven, but not all Christians are Saints I dont think, I cannot with certain discern what happens to ordinary folk who accept Christ, maybe they stay dead in Hell until the end of the 1000 years then in the second resurrection maybe they are judged worthy or life purely on acceptance of Jesus ransom for them?
Actually reading Revelation 20 maybe the Saints dont even go to Heaven?:- 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Maybe no man goes to Heaven?, it wasnt Gods original purpose for man to live in Heaven, but on Earth?
Kraichgauer
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ArrantPariah wrote:
Nambo wrote:
Jesus went to Hell for the 3 1/2 days.
Friday afternoon or evening (depending on which gospel you take as gospel) until Sunday morning: that's less than 48 hours.
Yes you are quite right, the scriptures say 3 days, I keep having the "two Witnesses" of Revelation in mind who are resurrected after 3 1/2 days, Revelation 11
spongy
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albedo wrote:
wreck1 wrote:
albedo wrote:
I believe under Christian doctrine saying someone will get into Heaven or health is itself a serious sin.
As I'm a non-believer would any theologians confirm this. It is to do with passing Judgment (capital J) which is God's role, in the Abrahamic faiths.
As I'm a non-believer would any theologians confirm this. It is to do with passing Judgment (capital J) which is God's role, in the Abrahamic faiths.
[88.21] Therefore do remind, for you are only a reminder.
[88.22] You are not a watcher over them;
[88.23] But whoever turns back and disbelieves,
[88.24] Allah will chastise him with the greatest chastisement.
[76.29] Surely this is a reminder, so whoever pleases takes to his Lord a way.
[76.30] And you do not please except that Allah please, surely Allah is Knowing, Wise;
[76.31] He makes whom He pleases to enter into His mercy; and (as for) the unjust, He has prepared for them a painful chastisement.
And more.
The only thing clearly relevant is the second one, but I'm asking about the Christian position not the Islamic position.
Judge others on the same way you wish to be judged by the lord(with different wording)
As long as you dont mind being judged with the same scrutiny you are using when your time comes you are good to go
Edit:
Mathew 7.2
1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?…
spongy wrote:
albedo wrote:
wreck1 wrote:
albedo wrote:
I believe under Christian doctrine saying someone will get into Heaven or health is itself a serious sin.
As I'm a non-believer would any theologians confirm this. It is to do with passing Judgment (capital J) which is God's role, in the Abrahamic faiths.
As I'm a non-believer would any theologians confirm this. It is to do with passing Judgment (capital J) which is God's role, in the Abrahamic faiths.
[88.21] Therefore do remind, for you are only a reminder.
[88.22] You are not a watcher over them;
[88.23] But whoever turns back and disbelieves,
[88.24] Allah will chastise him with the greatest chastisement.
[76.29] Surely this is a reminder, so whoever pleases takes to his Lord a way.
[76.30] And you do not please except that Allah please, surely Allah is Knowing, Wise;
[76.31] He makes whom He pleases to enter into His mercy; and (as for) the unjust, He has prepared for them a painful chastisement.
And more.
The only thing clearly relevant is the second one, but I'm asking about the Christian position not the Islamic position.
Judge others on the same way you wish to be judged by the lord(with different wording)
As long as you dont mind being judged with the same scrutiny you are using when your time comes you are good to go
Edit:
Mathew 7.2
1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?…
Is there anything specifically on Judgment (with a capital J). I was under the impression that it was a big sin to say explicitly that someone was going to hell or heaven.
Nambo wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Nambo wrote:
Jesus went to Hell for the 3 1/2 days.
Friday afternoon or evening (depending on which gospel you take as gospel) until Sunday morning: that's less than 48 hours.
Yes you are quite right, the scriptures say 3 days, I keep having the "two Witnesses" of Revelation in mind who are resurrected after 3 1/2 days, Revelation 11
It doesn't state that these chaps went to Hell for 3.5 days--only that they were dead for that period of time.
naturalplastic wrote:
Ga Ga (like Madonna, and Springsteen) is Catholic.
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
God (or the Pope, rather) abolished that place. I wonder why a perfect being would create it in the first place, then?
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spongy
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Age: 35
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puddingmouse wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Ga Ga (like Madonna, and Springsteen) is Catholic.
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
God (or the Pope, rather) abolished that place. I wonder why a perfect being would create it in the first place, then?
Like many aspects of religion purgatory was created by men and it was how the church made most of its money for centuries(selling holy items to avoid x years in purgatory...).
ArrantPariah wrote:
Nambo wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Nambo wrote:
Jesus went to Hell for the 3 1/2 days.
Friday afternoon or evening (depending on which gospel you take as gospel) until Sunday morning: that's less than 48 hours.
Yes you are quite right, the scriptures say 3 days, I keep having the "two Witnesses" of Revelation in mind who are resurrected after 3 1/2 days, Revelation 11
It doesn't state that these chaps went to Hell for 3.5 days--only that they were dead for that period of time.
In fact it specifically states they dont go to the grave but are left lying in the streets of Jerusalem, it was the resurrection to life I had in mind.
puddingmouse wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Ga Ga (like Madonna, and Springsteen) is Catholic.
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
God (or the Pope, rather) abolished that place. I wonder why a perfect being would create it in the first place, then?
Oh really?
Like fish on Friday, they got rid of purgatory?
When did they do that?
Did they get rid of "Limbo" as well?
naturalplastic wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Ga Ga (like Madonna, and Springsteen) is Catholic.
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
God (or the Pope, rather) abolished that place. I wonder why a perfect being would create it in the first place, then?
Oh really?
Like fish on Friday, they got rid of purgatory?
When did they do that?
Did they get rid of "Limbo" as well?
And dont forget the Child Martyrs who were Beatified as Saints by the Catholic Church but subsequently had their Sainthood status removed when the Church wanted to be Politically correct.
I can just imagine those little infants, after hundreds of years in Heaven, answering peoples prayers, then having to pack their little bags and go with Jesus and God waving goodbye.
Nambo wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Ga Ga (like Madonna, and Springsteen) is Catholic.
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
So shouldn't "Purgatory" be on option in the survey as well?
God (or the Pope, rather) abolished that place. I wonder why a perfect being would create it in the first place, then?
Oh really?
Like fish on Friday, they got rid of purgatory?
When did they do that?
Did they get rid of "Limbo" as well?
And dont forget the Child Martyrs who were Beatified as Saints by the Catholic Church but subsequently had their Sainthood status removed when the Church wanted to be Politically correct.
I can just imagine those little infants, after hundreds of years in Heaven, answering peoples prayers, then having to pack their little bags and go with Jesus and God waving goodbye.
Awwww..
