Are people who believe in God delusional?
Wrong. As Jesus was not God, he was delusional as well. That is if he ever did claim he was God. Just because the Bible says he did doesn't mean he did.
Cousin Joshua said "I and my Father are One". He also said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"
Clearly Cousin Joshua was bat sh*t crazy.
ruveyn
He also said that he and the Disciples are one as well but the Trinitarians dont like to dwell on that verse.
All my Bibles have Jesus claiming to be the Son of God, not God himself.
When Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I am," he would have said that in Hebrew, I AM is the Personal name of God, YHWH -- "I AM WHO AM." It is both a verbal construction of the verb haya, to be, yet modified to form a proper name. So when Jesus was saying, "Before Abraham was "I AM WHO AM," he was expressly equating himself with YHWH, the God of the Jews. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of "equating himself with God."
It sounds like Jesus is committing blasphemy by saying humans are their own gods and then Jesus's followers twisted his message to avoid prosecution and being wiped out. He went from being God to son of God which was more acceptable, but not much more. It took a while to catch on.
Wrong. As Jesus was not God, he was delusional as well. That is if he ever did claim he was God. Just because the Bible says he did doesn't mean he did.
Cousin Joshua said "I and my Father are One". He also said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"
Clearly Cousin Joshua was bat sh*t crazy.
ruveyn
He also said that he and the Disciples are one as well but the Trinitarians dont like to dwell on that verse.
All my Bibles have Jesus claiming to be the Son of God, not God himself.
When Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I am," he would have said that in Hebrew, I AM is the Personal name of God, YHWH -- "I AM WHO AM." It is both a verbal construction of the verb haya, to be, yet modified to form a proper name. So when Jesus was saying, "Before Abraham was "I AM WHO AM," he was expressly equating himself with YHWH, the God of the Jews. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of "equating himself with God."
It sounds like Jesus is committing blasphemy by saying humans are their own gods and then Jesus's followers twisted his message to avoid prosecution and being wiped out. He went from being God to son of God which was more acceptable, but not much more. It took a while to catch on.
No. There is no evidence to what you are saying. John's Gospel is evidence enough to refute what you are saying. The opening words: "...and the Word was God....and the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us .... as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons (Greek word here is for an adopted son) of God and we have seen the glory of the Only-Begotten Son (Greek word here is for a son proper) of the Father."
1) Word took flesh = Only Begotten Son of God = God
2) Son of God gives to those who believe in him the status of sons (by adoption) of God, not equal to God, but possessive of a special relationship.
More evidence: the earliest followers of Christ the Son of God defended his divinity as being coequal with the divinity of the Father, against those who tried to make of him anything less than God. We know this because we have their writings.
- The universe exists and so must have a cause
- I believe that God caused the universe
- God exists and therefore God must have a cause
- ?
This has long been addressed and settled. The fact it keeps rearing it's ugly head in its death throes is just plain amusing.
1. Everything that had a beginning must have a cause.
2. The universe had a beginning and so must have a cause.
3. God is the uncaused Cause that created everything.
4. It is unnecessary for God to have a cause, since God is infinite and therefore has no beginning or ending.
We know, for instance, that the universe is not infinite because we know that stars, for instance, have a life span. A few billion years is nothing against an infinite backdrop. Eventually everything that spontaneously Big-banged itself into existence should have burned out a long, LONG time ago. So whether it was the Big Bang or God batted an eyelash, it all had to have a start at some point in time relatively recently, if only as recent as a few short billion years ago.
Even if the Big Bang is counted as the starting point for the universe as we know it, the question remains what the cause is for the Big Bang, since "everything has a cause." An uncaused, infinite, personal being that exists outside of space-time is a logical conclusion for the first cause.
It's only settled in your own mind. We don't know that the Big Bang was the actual beginning, it only appears to be a local beginning. If God can be infinite, then the universe could be infinite. The universe could also be uncaused, lots of quantum mechanical effects like nuclear decay are also uncaused. And the total energy of the universe is practically zero, so it didn't require any energy inputs (causes) to occur. The cause of the Big Bang could also be another universe.
And it remains there is no evidence for the god hypothesis.
Wrong. As Jesus was not God, he was delusional as well. That is if he ever did claim he was God. Just because the Bible says he did doesn't mean he did.
Cousin Joshua said "I and my Father are One". He also said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"
Clearly Cousin Joshua was bat sh*t crazy.
ruveyn
He also said that he and the Disciples are one as well but the Trinitarians dont like to dwell on that verse.
All my Bibles have Jesus claiming to be the Son of God, not God himself.
When Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I am," he would have said that in Hebrew, I AM is the Personal name of God, YHWH -- "I AM WHO AM." It is both a verbal construction of the verb haya, to be, yet modified to form a proper name. So when Jesus was saying, "Before Abraham was "I AM WHO AM," he was expressly equating himself with YHWH, the God of the Jews. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of "equating himself with God."
Whenever folk try to turn me to worshiping a triune god through their clever use of words, I simply read Daniel 7 and 1st Corinthians 15.
Wrong. As Jesus was not God, he was delusional as well. That is if he ever did claim he was God. Just because the Bible says he did doesn't mean he did.
Cousin Joshua said "I and my Father are One". He also said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"
Clearly Cousin Joshua was bat sh*t crazy.
ruveyn
He also said that he and the Disciples are one as well but the Trinitarians dont like to dwell on that verse.
All my Bibles have Jesus claiming to be the Son of God, not God himself.
When Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I am," he would have said that in Hebrew, I AM is the Personal name of God, YHWH -- "I AM WHO AM." It is both a verbal construction of the verb haya, to be, yet modified to form a proper name. So when Jesus was saying, "Before Abraham was "I AM WHO AM," he was expressly equating himself with YHWH, the God of the Jews. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of "equating himself with God."
Whenever folk try to turn me to worshiping a triune god through their clever use of words, I simply read Daniel 7 and 1st Corinthians 15.
YHWH translates as he is or he will be.
ruveyn
Wrong. As Jesus was not God, he was delusional as well. That is if he ever did claim he was God. Just because the Bible says he did doesn't mean he did.
Cousin Joshua said "I and my Father are One". He also said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"
Clearly Cousin Joshua was bat sh*t crazy.
ruveyn
He also said that he and the Disciples are one as well but the Trinitarians dont like to dwell on that verse.
All my Bibles have Jesus claiming to be the Son of God, not God himself.
When Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I am," he would have said that in Hebrew, I AM is the Personal name of God, YHWH -- "I AM WHO AM." It is both a verbal construction of the verb haya, to be, yet modified to form a proper name. So when Jesus was saying, "Before Abraham was "I AM WHO AM," he was expressly equating himself with YHWH, the God of the Jews. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of "equating himself with God."
Whenever folk try to turn me to worshiping a triune god through their clever use of words, I simply read Daniel 7 and 1st Corinthians 15.
YHWH translates as he is or he will be.
ruveyn
Only if you treat YHWH loosely as either a qal or hif'il verb form. Such an interpretation is considered specious by most scholars.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0klSfx--n8[/youtube]
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There is no item accepted by everyone as proof either for or against life after death, but there is claimed evidence, i.e. ghost stories. Against them there is a claimed arbitrary insult, made unevidenced, that says ghost stories are a psychiatric symptom. - Something we don't want to be real must conveniently always be delusional because we say so and we are the boffins so there.
Personally I happen to think life after death is proved by an experience we all share: sentient serial time. Each event experienced at a point in time is experienced as a happening, its entire reality as happening includes passing into the resultant state that it has happened. Without this it has not happened, the state of having happened is innate to the fact of happening. But the state of having happened is a succeding moment, a later point in time, it comes after the moment of happening. It shows that every moment, to really happen at all, innately includes that a successor moment happens. This holds both for the moment's objective reality outside us in happening, and for the sentient experience of it. A time line is a phenomenon whose reality perpetually makes its own following reality. This makes it an infinite succession incapable of ending.
Your time line of sentient experience can never end. But your body does end. Hence they can't be the same thing.
Just because your time line can't end does not mean it can't jump, relative to the timeline of the world around you. Only end points have been disproved. gaps are not disproved, and obviously the evidence of experience is that gaps do happen: any unconscious state, non-dreaming sleep. It does not disprove that when you die it might be a billion years before your next experience - I don't believe it will be, but this proof does not disprove that it will. The only thing it proves is that there will be a next experience at all. That whenever you are unconscious, your time line is jumping relative to the outside world's timeline, and your past conscious existence is still making unbreakably inevitable your future conscious existence.
The question of how jumps happen comes after the proof that they do. You could postulate Planck times being distended, or a wavelike effect relative to the world timeline. But the absence of an perfectly made model for how time jumps happen does not overturn that they do, because that is established from the observed evidence of the time experience's entire nature.
If you had felt Holy Spirit you would not describe it as "the same feeling when I'm watching a very emotional movie".
I get quite deep feelings when watching such movies, I have also experienced Holy Spirit, and can report they are nothing like each other.
A nearer analogy would be if you where to say you get the same feeling when you have taken class A drugs or Morphine.
Unless you have experienced Holy Spirit, I don't think you can say its the same feeling as.......
When I first received it, it wasn't in an emotional setting what-so-ever, I was alone in my dingy room reading the most dull and boring book of the Bible, Numbers, when totally expectantly, something as pleasant as Morphine felt as if it had been injected into me.
So it's a psychological thing. You call it the Holy Spirit. Other religious/spiritual people may beg to differ.
Er, no, guess you didnt read my post, in your view its a psychological thing, I was relating how it wasn't.
It's still psychological the way I see it. It's not like you've shown any evidence that it was remarkably supernatural. All you described was how you felt (which is part of what psychology is about).
Wrong. As Jesus was not God, he was delusional as well. That is if he ever did claim he was God. Just because the Bible says he did doesn't mean he did.
Cousin Joshua said "I and my Father are One". He also said "I am the Resurrection and the Life"
Clearly Cousin Joshua was bat sh*t crazy.
ruveyn
He also said that he and the Disciples are one as well but the Trinitarians dont like to dwell on that verse.
All my Bibles have Jesus claiming to be the Son of God, not God himself.
When Jesus says, "Before Abraham was I am," he would have said that in Hebrew, I AM is the Personal name of God, YHWH -- "I AM WHO AM." It is both a verbal construction of the verb haya, to be, yet modified to form a proper name. So when Jesus was saying, "Before Abraham was "I AM WHO AM," he was expressly equating himself with YHWH, the God of the Jews. This is why the Pharisees accused Jesus of "equating himself with God."
It sounds like Jesus is committing blasphemy by saying humans are their own gods and then Jesus's followers twisted his message to avoid prosecution and being wiped out. He went from being God to son of God which was more acceptable, but not much more. It took a while to catch on.
No. There is no evidence to what you are saying. John's Gospel is evidence enough to refute what you are saying. The opening words: "...and the Word was God....and the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us .... as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons (Greek word here is for an adopted son) of God and we have seen the glory of the Only-Begotten Son (Greek word here is for a son proper) of the Father."
1) Word took flesh = Only Begotten Son of God = God
2) Son of God gives to those who believe in him the status of sons (by adoption) of God, not equal to God, but possessive of a special relationship.
More evidence: the earliest followers of Christ the Son of God defended his divinity as being coequal with the divinity of the Father, against those who tried to make of him anything less than God. We know this because we have their writings.
I agree that John, implicitly at least, states that Jesus is meant to be God. But do be aware of the timeline in which this Gospel was written.
Ever noticed how neither Matthew nor Mark nor Luke ever allude to Jesus as God but, at most, son of God?
I do not believe Jesus is anymore God than you or me. If Jesus's original meaning is that we are all our own god, which it could have been, the authorities would have wigged hearing that and might demand his death, then I agree with him. We all contain God. Jesus was, most likely, engaged in metaphysics, philosophy and theology including mysticism. I believe he wanted to over throw the Jewish leaders and the Roman rulers. He wanted his own state where his followers and he were in charge. He challenged God.
After his crucifixion, his followers had the same dilemma many celebrities face today, how to stay relevant in an ever changing world full of people with short attention spans. Celebrities today would kill for Jesus's PR department.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSFZvR-ssuk[/youtube]
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
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You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
wittgenstein
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Also, the Big Bang does not indicate that there must be some God.
Agreed! However, I find it amusing that some fundamentalists (I never understood how such a silly philosophy can be fun. Tho to be honest being silly is fun) strongly disagree with the big bang, while in most respects it dove tails with the idea of a creation that happened at a particular point in time.
I guess that it is because of their basically anti-science stance. They do not even believe in global warming (because their religious beliefs have been co-opted by the oil industry)! They agree with oil executives (actually oil executives believe in global warming. *They are just more concerned about short term profits) even tho global warming dove tails with end of the world prophesy.
* They are not idiots! They know that when EVERY scientific organization in the world (of national or international standing) actually agrees ( that AGW is real) it is probably not a conspiracy started by bigfoot or the masons.
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YES! This is me!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gtdlR4rUcY
I went up over 50 feet!
I love debate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtckVng_1a0
My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM
God doesnt exist http://godisimaginary.com/i14.htm . I wished him away with a genies lamp. ![]()
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
Also, the Big Bang does not indicate that there must be some God.
Agreed! However, I find it amusing that some fundamentalists (I never understood how such a silly philosophy can be fun. Tho to be honest being silly is fun) strongly disagree with the big bang, while in most respects it dove tails with the idea of a creation that happened at a particular point in time.
I guess that it is because of their basically anti-science stance. They do not even believe in global warming (because their religious beliefs have been co-opted by the oil industry)! They agree with oil executives (actually oil executives believe in global warming. *They are just more concerned about short term profits) even tho global warming dove tails with end of the world prophesy.
* They are not idiots! They know that when EVERY scientific organization in the world (of national or international standing) actually agrees ( that AGW is real) it is probably not a conspiracy started by bigfoot or the masons.
Big Bang was just God throwing a firecracker is all.
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