Teacher informs students of evolution lies in textbooks

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LKL
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27 Feb 2014, 10:23 pm

TheGoggles wrote:

What do you mean "both"? There are a billion different creation myths from a billion different religions. I hope you're prepared to teach them all.

QFT. The Hindu creation myth fits the data better than the Christian one (and it's still not scientific).

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27 Feb 2014, 10:47 pm

starvingartist wrote:

(translation: i'm too lazy to summarise the book for you myself. lol)

No worries, sorry

I'm usually the first person to say here, let me help you with that. :wink:

I will try and obtain a copy.

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27 Feb 2014, 11:00 pm

Pobbles wrote:

starvingartist wrote:

(translation: i'm too lazy to summarise the book for you myself. lol)

No worries, sorry

I'm usually the first person to say here, let me help you with that. :wink:

I will try and obtain a copy.

as someone who was raised in a secular household and planned for most of my life to be a biologist, i found it to be a fascinating read; and i felt it resonated quite a bit with my own personal philosophy (i see the natural world--the entire physical cosmos, that is--and the physical laws that govern it as sacred, as the language and expression of god).

*edited to add: i would also say that i feel the most sacred (man-made) places on earth are not churches, but libraries.

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27 Feb 2014, 11:09 pm

starvingartist wrote:

Don't worry, I'm not a crackpot. You can trust me if I recommend a book

Apologies for the misquote, but that's pretty much what I read. Cheers!

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27 Feb 2014, 11:30 pm

i'm always happy to recommend a book i enjoy--same goes for good music, films, and tv. as a relatively socially "limited" person, it's one of my favourite ways to connect with people.

enjoy!

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28 Feb 2014, 12:53 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

AspergianMutantt wrote:

I am raising my son to be an evolutionist...

When he is old enough to make his own informed choices...

Do you see your own religious bias there? Evolution is the religion of people with issues against the idea of "God", and your early indoctrination of him is really no different than the one first imposed upon you. I staunchly defend your right to do that, of course, I would just ask that you call it what it is: religion, not science.

"Evolution is the religion of people with issues against the idea of 'God?'" you say?
Well, I fancy myself a Christian, but I also believe in a divinely guided evolution. I can tell you, I hardly am against the idea of God. And what do you base your assertion that evolution is religion on? And for that matter, whose creation account is going to be taught? I think creationists just assume it's going to be that of Christianity. But what about the Islamic viewpoint? Or the Buddhist? Or the Native American animist? Would any of them have their creation stories taught in science class as well?

It just occurred to me, I should explain I was addressing not the OP, but the creationist persons the post was about. It was bugging me since writing my initial post, and I thought it might need clarifying.

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28 Feb 2014, 5:32 am

I think they should keep religion out of school all together.

Religion should be something that is up to the family (if they're into that sort of thing) to teach the children.

I'm not sure if I'm on the right subject here.

Many apologies if I'm not.

I'll just post it anyway.

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28 Feb 2014, 5:59 am

Exactly what is to be taught about 'creationism'? There is no falsifiable theory of creation ever proposed. Never mind evidence FOR creationism. All there is just some nonsense buzzwords. Alchemy is better than that. Shall we teach alchemy in chemistry classes?

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28 Feb 2014, 6:31 am

babybird wrote:

I think they should keep religion out of school all together.

I agree. If people are interested in religion they can get involved with it outside of school. It shouldn't be rammed down the throats of students as it was in my school.

Similarly people can learn about the creation myths of various religions and cultures in their own time. It most certainly doesn't belong in science classes.

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28 Feb 2014, 6:36 am

The odd thing is, is that I lived in a convent for a while as a child, and was never taught about religion.

I never even saw a bible.

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28 Feb 2014, 8:46 am

trollcatman wrote:

This whole "teach both sides" stuff is ridiculous. Of course we could teach students that the earth is flat AND teach that the earth is a sphere, and "let them decide for themselves". Except one theory has a lot of evidence and the other doesn't.

I believe "Flat or round?" actually once was the question and it was religion that had things backwards and nearly put Galileo to death after he had reported his discovery of "Round!"

Janissy wrote:

Geologists and anthropologists have looked into whether climate change of the past could have caused flooding significant enough to inspire Great Flood stories across multiple cultures. It looks like that could have happened...

However, just because it turns out that something described in the Bible or elsewhere actually happened does not mean that God did it. For people who use religion to describe the world, all astounding natural phenomena will be described as divine in origin.

Understood, and several years ago I really enjoyed some books by Graham Phillips such as the one explaining how the plagues of Egypt in the day of Moses could have been the effects of a monstrous volcanic eruption that had already been documented. However, and sadly, I suspect many religious folks would reject what Phillips said since Scripture lists those plagues in a different order.

simon_says wrote:

Errors in textbooks should be corrected. But if a creationist says something it's best to triple check it. In my experience they are prolific liars. You should apply some of your skepticism to their claims as well.

If you can, please stop seeing me in whatever stereotypical mold is blocking your view! I do investigate things, but not because I am driven by skepticism. Either way, however, the goal of this thread is to give anyone willing to do so an opportunity to admit his or her cling to evolution is a religious one as evidenced by all the religious debate going on! True scientists ignore religious rhetoric and just stick to the tasks at hand.

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28 Feb 2014, 8:54 am

leejosepho wrote:

... however, the goal of this thread is to give anyone willing to do so an opportunity to admit his or her cling to evolution is a religious one as evidenced by all the religious debate going on! True scientists ignore religious rhetoric and just stick to the tasks at hand.

To me evolution is simply fact, as shown by the considerable and overwhelming evidence for it. Evolution is part of science. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion nor gods nor religious beliefs. It is creationists who are taking issue with evolution because it disagrees with their world view and who are trying to make evolution a religious issue and bizarrely attempting to corrupt the education of children by pushing creationism into science classes where it most clearly does not belong.

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28 Feb 2014, 9:06 am

babybird wrote:

I think they should keep religion out of school all together.

Religion should be something that is up to the family (if they're into that sort of thing) to teach the children.

Agreed, and there is actually quite a bit of history behind how all of that came to be as things are today. Public (a.k.a. "Government") schools are secular, not religious, and the responsibility of preferred education is up to parents, not governments.

TallyMan wrote:

Similarly people can learn about the creation myths of various religions and cultures in their own time. It most certainly doesn't belong in science classes.

Creation myths or theories of various religions and cultures certainly are not science, but even secular schools need those subject matters in order to push their own agendas!

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28 Feb 2014, 9:13 am

TheGoggles wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Creationists might or might not be scientists, as such, but their "theories" existed before they were born.

Oh cool, so slavery, genocide, and dynasty building are all perfectly cool then. I call Vlad the Impaler! All hale Prince Dracule!

I think you are trying to imply Scripture somehow promotes those kinds of things, but I believe that is inaccurate.

GGPViper wrote:

Kent Hovind is a conspiracy theorist (who thinks that the NWO is suppressing creationism in schools) currently serving a 10 year sentence for tax fraud...

I have not studied his case in fine detail, but I have yet to see any proof he actually did anything wrong. Either way, however, none of us would be allowed to speak to anyone at all about anything at all if perfection were a prerequisite.

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28 Feb 2014, 9:16 am

leejosepho wrote:

TallyMan wrote:

Similarly people can learn about the creation myths of various religions and cultures in their own time. It most certainly doesn't belong in science classes.

Creation myths or theories of various religions and cultures certainly are not science, but even secular schools need those subject matters in order to push their own agendas!

What agendas? The only agenda that secular schools should have is to provide an accurate and quality education in the subjects being taught to their students. It isn't (and should not be) the role of schools to subvert the classes for any other "agendas".

If America views it important that religion is taught then it should have its own classes and not be used to subvert other classes degrading the education of those students.

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leejosepho
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28 Feb 2014, 9:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

The fact that evolution comes primarily from people who are essentially saying this earth or universe needs no "God" to explain it, and no, I am not saying it does. Rather, I just take a look at what I can observe and then try to discern what might actually make sense. Like you, I would have no problem with "evolution by design" or whatever, but the idea that my eyeballs just naturally grew out of some kind of ooze is ridiculous...and I say that after learning various facts about them over these past few months while having some surgeries.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And for that matter, whose creation account is going to be taught? I think creationists just assume it's going to be that of Christianity.

That is possibly quite accurate at least where schools had first been started from within Christendom.

Kraichgauer wrote:

But what about the Islamic viewpoint? Or the Buddhist? Or the Native American animist? Would any of them have their creation stories taught in science class as well?

If they first had their own schools and then gave them away like Christians did without realizing what they were doing, then yes, possibly so.

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