Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

A lesson for the left/'liberals'

Page 4 of 10 [ 157 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

21 Nov 2016, 6:19 am

anagram wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
All I care about is how he very well may have allowed for hate and racism to become not just acceptable, but fashionable. Everything good that our country stands for may very well be in danger of disappearing into the abyss of everything that's wrong with our country.

that's a valid concern, but i think it's important to keep in mind not to exaggerate it. it's important not to ignore it, but keeping it realistic and focusing on actual politics and policies is the effective way to address it. trump wants to be a politician, and he was elected as such, so he should be treated as such: a politician. he is repulsive, but... deep breaths and ommm... if he's attacked as a role model, he grows as a role model

trump isn't the first trump to happen. his previous name was berlusconi:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/opini ... trump.html

http://reddit.com/r/italy/comments/5dqp ... ilarities/

i was googling about the italian referendum and i found that stuff and was reminded of the fact. so there's (recent) history to learn from. trump and his campaign have some extra features that tend to resemble fascist leaders, but realistically speaking he's waaay more like an "american berlusconi" with fascist-like themes as an undertone instead


Yes, but did Berlusconi court radical and violent racists? Even if Trump doesn't really hold to their racial ideology, those people are still expecting something in return for their support. His plans for Sessions and Bannon don't put my fears to rest.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


anagram
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

21 Nov 2016, 6:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, but did Berlusconi court radical and violent racists? Even if Trump doesn't really hold to their racial ideology, those people are still expecting something in return for their support. His plans for Sessions and Bannon don't put my fears to rest.

remember that he most likely doesn't care though. i think that's his biggest difference from actual fascists. and the effective way to defeat him is by showing that he, in fact, doesn't care about any of that, rather than arguing that he does. that way, his most radical "followers" are proven to only be "following" themselves. in other words, they're more easily held accountable for their own actions and attitudes. then trump becomes a liability to them, and vice versa

he seems ready for everything, but i think the one thing he's probably not ready for is being taken seriously


_________________
404


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

21 Nov 2016, 1:23 pm

anagram wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, but did Berlusconi court radical and violent racists? Even if Trump doesn't really hold to their racial ideology, those people are still expecting something in return for their support. His plans for Sessions and Bannon don't put my fears to rest.

remember that he most likely doesn't care though. i think that's his biggest difference from actual fascists. and the effective way to defeat him is by showing that he, in fact, doesn't care about any of that, rather than arguing that he does. that way, his most radical "followers" are proven to only be "following" themselves. in other words, they're more easily held accountable for their own actions and attitudes. then trump becomes a liability to them, and vice versa

he seems ready for everything, but i think the one thing he's probably not ready for is being taken seriously


That's a very real possibility. Just the same, he may have unleashed something ugly into the American mainstream with his racist following.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

21 Nov 2016, 2:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It has a lot to do with people. More than half of the country still voted for Hillary despite what she is.


No, we voted for her because she's not Trump. We could have voted for another candidate, but Clinton had the best chance of keeping Trump out of the White House, after Bernie was cheated out of the nomination.


She's far worse than Trump, you just don't understand why.


All I care about is how he very well may have allowed for hate and racism to become not just acceptable, but fashionable. Everything good that our country stands for may very well be in danger of disappearing into the abyss of everything that's wrong with our country. I didn't see any of that coming from Clinton.


Laughing about murder and rape from Clinton didn't worry you? She was pouring out deranged hatred about Russia, but that's OK? Her endless war mongering and mass murder didn't worry you?


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


BTDT
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 8,490

21 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

I'd worry that some brilliant psychopath may get the support to invent and build a super-powerful nuke that blows up way more that anyone else expects--just because he wants to see something go boom. Taking out 10,000 times the area you expect could have nasty consequences.



anagram
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,433
Location: 4 Nov 2012

21 Nov 2016, 3:15 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a very real possibility. Just the same, he may have unleashed something ugly into the American mainstream with his racist following.

whatever the case may be, i think the rule of thumb remains the same: "separate man from myth". question the myth and confront the man. separate the personality from the cult. he draws his strength from the conflation of things that have no logical connection. if you successfully take that away from him, he's nothing. but you can't do that by pointing out how he's wrong. instead, you just give him the rope for him to hang himself, and while at it, you show how you're right (not "better than him", or else you're only playing his own game)

he's totally unpredictable as a leader, but not as a person, because he's a textbook narcissist


_________________
404


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

21 Nov 2016, 4:16 pm

anagram wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's a very real possibility. Just the same, he may have unleashed something ugly into the American mainstream with his racist following.

whatever the case may be, i think the rule of thumb remains the same: "separate man from myth". question the myth and confront the man. separate the personality from the cult. he draws his strength from the conflation of things that have no logical connection. if you successfully take that away from him, he's nothing. but you can't do that by pointing out how he's wrong. instead, you just give him the rope for him to hang himself, and while at it, you show how you're right (not "better than him", or else you're only playing his own game)

he's totally unpredictable as a leader, but not as a person, because he's a textbook narcissist


I find your conclusion very sound.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

21 Nov 2016, 4:19 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It has a lot to do with people. More than half of the country still voted for Hillary despite what she is.


No, we voted for her because she's not Trump. We could have voted for another candidate, but Clinton had the best chance of keeping Trump out of the White House, after Bernie was cheated out of the nomination.


She's far worse than Trump, you just don't understand why.


All I care about is how he very well may have allowed for hate and racism to become not just acceptable, but fashionable. Everything good that our country stands for may very well be in danger of disappearing into the abyss of everything that's wrong with our country. I didn't see any of that coming from Clinton.


Laughing about murder and rape from Clinton didn't worry you? She was pouring out deranged hatred about Russia, but that's OK? Her endless war mongering and mass murder didn't worry you?


I see you neglected to mention Clinton's association with the Podesta brothers, and Lady GaGa in a pedophile/canabalism/murder cult of Moloch! Are you getting soft on us, Powell?
ALL HAIL THE YELLOW KING!! !!
:P :P :P :P


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 36,036

21 Nov 2016, 7:15 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Laughing about murder and rape from Clinton didn't worry you? She was pouring out deranged hatred about Russia, but that's OK? Her endless war mongering and mass murder didn't worry you?


Still invoking fake "rage" at Clinton...I notice you have been studiously avoiding the obvious that your hero Trump is pro-Israel and is no friend to your beloved Palestinians.



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

22 Nov 2016, 12:41 pm

marshall wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
marshall wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It has a lot to do with people. More than half of the country still voted for Hillary despite what she is.

And that has nothing to do with Trump winning. Trump only won because the Democrats refused to give the people a real progressive to vote for.

Also, people only voted for Hillary because they thought Trump would be far worse. I don't blame them. I personally don't want healthcare repealed. For some it will be a matter of life or death.


Na, Trump won because there's no such thing as a "progressive". Sure, people may have been ignorant and naive enough to vote Bernard Sanders in if he had rightly been the Democrat candidate.

Take your head out of the sand and stop being so insulting. Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant and naive. Not everyone falls for the red bait or is terrified of "socialism".

Quote:
There was no real healthcare before and it will just be altered anyway.

You would never understand unless you were one of the people personally affected. Be happy you have no health problems or "pre-existing conditions".



Didn't say they were. But people getting all excited about Sanders just because he says what they want to hear or holds up slogans really are naive, ignorant or both.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

22 Nov 2016, 12:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It has a lot to do with people. More than half of the country still voted for Hillary despite what she is.


No, we voted for her because she's not Trump. We could have voted for another candidate, but Clinton had the best chance of keeping Trump out of the White House, after Bernie was cheated out of the nomination.


She's far worse than Trump, you just don't understand why.


All I care about is how he very well may have allowed for hate and racism to become not just acceptable, but fashionable. Everything good that our country stands for may very well be in danger of disappearing into the abyss of everything that's wrong with our country. I didn't see any of that coming from Clinton.


Laughing about murder and rape from Clinton didn't worry you? She was pouring out deranged hatred about Russia, but that's OK? Her endless war mongering and mass murder didn't worry you?


I see you neglected to mention Clinton's association with the Podesta brothers, and Lady GaGa in a pedophile/canabalism/murder cult of Moloch! Are you getting soft on us, Powell?
ALL HAIL THE YELLOW KING!! ! !
:P :P :P :P



There isn't enough room on this site to mention all her crimes. I haven't looked into all that stuff enough, and can't be bothered to listen to Alex Jones at the moment.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

22 Nov 2016, 12:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Laughing about murder and rape from Clinton didn't worry you? She was pouring out deranged hatred about Russia, but that's OK? Her endless war mongering and mass murder didn't worry you?


Still invoking fake "rage" at Clinton...I notice you have been studiously avoiding the obvious that your hero Trump is pro-Israel and is no friend to your beloved Palestinians.


What fake rage? Nothing I said is untrue. I haven't avoided at all, and responded to this point on another thread. Maybe you missed it. If Trump was supporting Palestinians he wouldn't have won the primaries let alone the Presidency. You have to pander to Israel to get anywhere in US politics. The ADL were accusing him of antisemitism after his last campaign video. Who knows Trump's true intentions regarding this issue, but I know what would have happened with Hillary in charge. Trump should be your hero if you think he loves Israel so much.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

22 Nov 2016, 1:35 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Laughing about murder and rape from Clinton didn't worry you? She was pouring out deranged hatred about Russia, but that's OK? Her endless war mongering and mass murder didn't worry you?


Still invoking fake "rage" at Clinton...I notice you have been studiously avoiding the obvious that your hero Trump is pro-Israel and is no friend to your beloved Palestinians.


What fake rage? Nothing I said is untrue. I haven't avoided at all, and responded to this point on another thread. Maybe you missed it. If Trump was supporting Palestinians he wouldn't have won the primaries let alone the Presidency. You have to pander to Israel to get anywhere in US politics. The ADL were accusing him of antisemitism after his last campaign video. Who knows Trump's true intentions regarding this issue, but I know what would have happened with Hillary in charge. Trump should be your hero if you think he loves Israel so much.


His son-in-law is an Orthodox Jew, while his daughter is a Jewish convert. Trust me, he's Pro-Israel.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

22 Nov 2016, 1:57 pm

You realise that lots of people against Israel and/or Israel's actions, are Jews?


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

22 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
You realise that lots of people against Israel and/or Israel's actions, are Jews?


I don't think they're so much against Israel (save for a few ultra-orthodox fanatics), just that they're against certain policies of the Israeli government.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

25 Nov 2016, 1:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
You realise that lots of people against Israel and/or Israel's actions, are Jews?


I don't think they're so much against Israel (save for a few ultra-orthodox fanatics), just that they're against certain policies of the Israeli government.


It's the fanatics that support Israel. The groups against it rightly say that the Jews aren't meant to have a homeland. Zionism was founded by an atheist.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"