Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Jill Stein to File for Recount in Wisconsin

Page 4 of 6 [ 96 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

androbot01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada

29 Nov 2016, 12:09 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
... There could be civil wars in the UK and the US.

I agree, especially with regard to the U.S. Tensions are really high there.



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

29 Nov 2016, 1:32 pm

It will be the same here if the government tries to wriggle out of the referendum result.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 39,637
Location: Long Island, New York

29 Nov 2016, 2:09 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
K_Kelly wrote:

Most importantly:

- What chance do you think there is of nuclear war between the US and Russia within the next four years if Trump is elected?
- What chance do you think there is if Trump is not elected?


I will rephrase the question
What are the chances of one one country or terrorist organization using intententionally or accidently using a nuke on another country during the next 4 years?

Trump 40%
Hillary 13%
It would not surprise me if Trump used tactical nukes on ISIS.

What are the chances of extinction or near extinction nuclear war in thr next 4 years?
Trump 15%
Hillary 3%

I strongly disagree with your values. I'm not sure there's a sensible way of estimating the probability, we can't exactly peek at the next universe over, but I'd be surprised if it was more than 1% for Trump and a tiny tiny tiny number for any other prominent presidential contenders, even Lindsey Graham.

I don't think Trump would use tactical nukes on ISIS now. Maybe if he'd been in charge in 2013/14 when they controlled huge areas around Raqqa and Mosul, but today he'd probably be told there was just nowhere to nuke.


All it is, is a guess. I really do think Trump has the personality to launch nukes out of spite or during a tantrum. My 6 year old relative is much more mature then him in several ways. And Trump seems to have no moral issues with using them. For all the worry about bigotry and alt right this scares me much, much, much more. And unfortunately the protests are probably counterproductive for this problem.


_________________
“Self Acceptance is a process not a performance”
“You are autistic enough. And you always have been”

Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.


JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

29 Nov 2016, 2:49 pm

:roll: Hillary laughing about killing people and laughing about going to war with Iran and threatening Russia which could spark a nuclear war is so much more mature and not worth worrying about.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


The_Walrus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

29 Nov 2016, 3:51 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
It will be the same here if the government tries to wriggle out of the referendum result.

"Here"

I think people would stick to peaceful channels (i.e. voting UKIP) rather than starting a civil war; Leaver won in a disproportionate number of constituencies and could easily pass the necessary legislation. In any case, it's very doubtful that Leave will still have a majority in 2019. If there's a second referendum, and of course there should be, a significant number of people will change their votes, Leave voters will be disproportionately represented in the dead, new voters will be disproportionately more likely to vote Remain, and the silent majority will turn out to undo the mistake.



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

29 Nov 2016, 5:35 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It will be the same here if the government tries to wriggle out of the referendum result.

"Here"

I think people would stick to peaceful channels (i.e. voting UKIP) rather than starting a civil war; Leaver won in a disproportionate number of constituencies and could easily pass the necessary legislation. In any case, it's very doubtful that Leave will still have a majority in 2019. If there's a second referendum, and of course there should be, a significant number of people will change their votes, Leave voters will be disproportionately represented in the dead, new voters will be disproportionately more likely to vote Remain, and the silent majority will turn out to undo the mistake.


Despite what war mongering mass murderers like Tony Blair and his crooked corporate friends think, we voted to leave the EU, that needs to happen otherwise there will be carnage like you have never seen. " it's very doubtful that Leave will still have a majority in 2019." :lmao: You're talking about the vote like it's an election result. The British people have given the government a mandate to trigger Article 50 and leave the EU. "Leave" isn't a party and doesn't need a "majority". The vote is done, despite the efforts of the establishment, they lost. It isn't a mistake, it's justice. Sure, a bunch of rich people who despise the working class are utterly dismayed that we voted the wrong way for them, but if they try to wriggle out of this, this will only strengthen the British people's resolve. We won't be made to keep voting until we make the "correct" decision for crooked bankers, bureaucrats, corporate slugs and corrupt politicians. People are starting to wake up.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

29 Nov 2016, 6:14 pm

What is the U.K. Windows 8
Lol
People voted and if you just ignore that vote and have another after another after another I imagine even British subjects will get tired and rise up



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

30 Nov 2016, 12:56 pm

If they make us vote again of stay in the Single Market even, there will be real trouble.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


The_Walrus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

30 Nov 2016, 2:34 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It will be the same here if the government tries to wriggle out of the referendum result.

"Here"

I think people would stick to peaceful channels (i.e. voting UKIP) rather than starting a civil war; Leaver won in a disproportionate number of constituencies and could easily pass the necessary legislation. In any case, it's very doubtful that Leave will still have a majority in 2019. If there's a second referendum, and of course there should be, a significant number of people will change their votes, Leave voters will be disproportionately represented in the dead, new voters will be disproportionately more likely to vote Remain, and the silent majority will turn out to undo the mistake.


Despite what war mongering mass murderers like Tony Blair and his crooked corporate friends think,

And of course the vast majority of Remain people who aren't Tony Blair...

Seriously, do you just base all your decisions on opposing what Blair thinks?
Quote:
"Leave" isn't a party and doesn't need a "majority". The vote is done, despite the efforts of the establishment, they lost. It isn't a mistake, it's justice.

So you're saying Britain should leave the EU without the support of most of the electorate? How does this make you any less arrogant or elitist than the "elites" you spit venom at?

It would be a huge injustice if the government ignore the will of the people in 2019.

Also, if you live in Palestine then why do you use "we" to refer to the UK?



JohnPowell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2016
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,806
Location: Palestine

30 Nov 2016, 4:35 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
It will be the same here if the government tries to wriggle out of the referendum result.

"Here"

I think people would stick to peaceful channels (i.e. voting UKIP) rather than starting a civil war; Leaver won in a disproportionate number of constituencies and could easily pass the necessary legislation. In any case, it's very doubtful that Leave will still have a majority in 2019. If there's a second referendum, and of course there should be, a significant number of people will change their votes, Leave voters will be disproportionately represented in the dead, new voters will be disproportionately more likely to vote Remain, and the silent majority will turn out to undo the mistake.


Despite what war mongering mass murderers like Tony Blair and his crooked corporate friends think,

And of course the vast majority of Remain people who aren't Tony Blair...

Seriously, do you just base all your decisions on opposing what Blair thinks?
Quote:
"Leave" isn't a party and doesn't need a "majority". The vote is done, despite the efforts of the establishment, they lost. It isn't a mistake, it's justice.

So you're saying Britain should leave the EU without the support of most of the electorate? How does this make you any less arrogant or elitist than the "elites" you spit venom at?

It would be a huge injustice if the government ignore the will of the people in 2019.

Also, if you live in Palestine then why do you use "we" to refer to the UK?



The remain crowd is full of people like Blair. They cannot deal with democracy when it goes against them.

We have the support of most of the electorate, 52% is more than 48% last time I checked. Wanting the will of the people enforced isn't arrogant.

Why the hell do you keep talking about 2019? You can't just keep forcing people to vote again and manipulate them and flood them with propaganda and blackmail until you get the result you want. They did it with Ireland and Greece, well sorry, we won't stand for it.

I've already explained that I don't live in Palestine, it's just to show support. I live in the UK.


_________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"


EzraS
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,828
Location: Twin Peaks

01 Dec 2016, 8:55 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
Why does the media to this day do not want to forgive the US President-elect, Donald Trump, that He did not promised that he will not be challenging election results if he lose

And now Hillary Clinton challenging it :mrgreen:

http://fortune.com/2016/11/27/donald-tr ... ular-vote/


Everything they worried about Trump and his voters doing if Trump lost to upset a smooth transition, is being done by them. Rioting. Assignation threats. Claiming the election was rigged and or hacked. On and on. It's just so pathetic. I can't imagine my generation, who will be voting age in 2020, will be wanting to be a part of the democratic political party. Too hypocritical and too hysterical.



The_Walrus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

01 Dec 2016, 9:04 am

EzraS wrote:
pawelk1986 wrote:
Why does the media to this day do not want to forgive the US President-elect, Donald Trump, that He did not promised that he will not be challenging election results if he lose

And now Hillary Clinton challenging it :mrgreen:

http://fortune.com/2016/11/27/donald-tr ... ular-vote/


Everything they worried about Trump and his voters doing if Trump lost to upset a smooth transition, is being done by them. Rioting. Assignation threats. Claiming the election was rigged and or hacked. On and on. It's just so pathetic. I can't imagine my generation, who will be voting age in 2020, will be wanting to be a part of the democratic political party. Too hypocritical and too hysterical.

Well a large part of the protesting and hysteria is down to people your age.

Statistically young people are very likely to vote for the Democratic Party. Only 29% of 18 to 39 year olds supported Trump. You might be in that 29%, but you might not. I suspect you'll change quite a few of your views as you grow and learn more about the issues.



envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,227
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria

01 Dec 2016, 9:38 am

Walrus, why do you speak of another UK referendum in 2019?

Surely the decision of the electorate in 2016 still stands, since the exiters won a majority, even if it was a decision which many disagreed with it seems to be the will of the people? They can't go on and on holding referendums?

Maybe it was the wrong move: time will tell but it was put to the people and they decided?


_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?


my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/


pawelk1986
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,903
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

01 Dec 2016, 4:51 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Walrus, why do you speak of another UK referendum in 2019?

Surely the decision of the electorate in 2016 still stands, since the exiters won a majority, even if it was a decision which many disagreed with it seems to be the will of the people? They can't go on and on holding referendums?

Maybe it was the wrong move: time will tell but it was put to the people and they decided?


I think so, Brexit was very stupid, albeit i understand that Briton had enough eurocrats especially this from German and France bossing around :mrgreen:
Many poles think that also, but i think that Idea of United Europe is very beautiful,
only method that has been chosen is bad, which is an attempt to create the strong unified federalist superstate like the United States, in this case the United States of Europe (Although in my opinion, in relation to the EU, a more adequate comparison would be the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics :mrgreen: ).



The_Walrus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

02 Dec 2016, 8:41 am

envirozentinel wrote:
Walrus, why do you speak of another UK referendum in 2019?

Surely the decision of the electorate in 2016 still stands, since the exiters won a majority, even if it was a decision which many disagreed with it seems to be the will of the people? They can't go on and on holding referendums?

Maybe it was the wrong move: time will tell but it was put to the people and they decided?

By this logic, the will of the people is that George Bush should be president.

For starters, the Leave campaign were very clear that they would never accept the result of the referendum.

The politicians who campaigned for Leave promised things that simply weren't possible, and once the results came in they backtracked on a lot of their promises. The biggest one was that we'd be able to use of EU contributions towards funding our public services; Nigel Farage admitted that this wasn't true the next day, and now David Davis (the Minister in charge of all this and a lifelong Eurosceptic) admits that we'll need to keep paying in after we leave anyway.

In 2019, we should know what it is we're actually voting for. That will allow people to make an informed decision based on facts. If people still decide that they want to leave then that would be clear. But we shouldn't be bound by what people thought three years ago once there has been a significant change (i.e. we've negotiated a deal with the EU). Maybe Remain voters will feel more secure about Leaving once they know what the terms will be, or maybe Leave voters will decide that they made a mistake. Either way, it would put the issue to bed for a generation.



envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,227
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria

02 Dec 2016, 9:40 am

Are the benefits of EU worth what the "membership fees" are? Where does all this money go and would it be fair for the UK to keep paying after leaving?

(I really do want to know the pros and cons of "going it alone" or remaining because as a non-Briton I'd like to know what the informed UK opinion is on this).

Isn't it the opinion of many that London is subservient to what happens in Brussels?


_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?


my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/