What do you think about feminism

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07 Nov 2018, 7:42 am

Aspie19828 wrote:

Men can be criticised by women but they are not allowed to criticise women and call women out on their nonsense. Men criticising women is regarded as sexism. Men regularly get sacked if they dare criticise or speak out against women in the workforce.

Actually, at most workplaces, EVERYONE (male or female, right wing or left wing) is under pressure to avoid controversy, to avoid embarrassing the company and to avoid the appearance of being a troublemaker of whatever stripe.

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07 Nov 2018, 8:25 am

sly279 wrote:

How is men having their legs spread hurting women’s rights?

On an NYC subway or bus at least, a man (or woman) having one's legs spread hurts the rights of anyone (male or female) who needs to sit down next to that person. I don't see this as a feminist issue per se except insofar as a woman may feel physically intimidated about asking a man next to her to move his leg away from her, whereas a man would not feel similarly intimidated about asking the same thing of a woman sitting next to him.

sly279 wrote:

How does having the ac on make women less equal?

I see this as more an environmentalist issue than a feminist issue. The reason for having the AC turned down to such low temperatures is because of the social pressure on men to wear suits and ties, which of course make them uncomfortable in a warm room. If neckties in the workplace could be eradicated, vast amounts of energy could be saved.

sly279 wrote:

Then there’s the ones who wanted castrated and killed yep that sure sounds like equality.

The vast majority of feminists have no such desire.

sly279 wrote:

Reality is legally speaking you are equal feminism completed its task now you have a organization that’s trying to stay relevant so it can continue to make money for those in charge much like how the nra supports gun control to keep its continued existence so it’s ceo can make more money. If feminists said well done mission accomplished let’s all be equalitarians now and fight for all humans rights who would donate to them? Who would pay their ceos salary ? So they fine stupid crazy issues to fight over to justify their continued existence.

Actually the crazy fringe feminist ideas are NOT coming from large organizations such as NOW.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 07 Nov 2018, 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Nov 2018, 8:42 am

Prudolph wrote:

True feminists who are truly advocating for equality between men and women I completely agree with and support.

However, a lot of people who claim to be feminists simply aren't, they're misandrists who don't want to admit what they truly are, and so hide behind the feminist label. You can't have a debate with them because they go straight onto the defensive and ridicule you just because you are male. These people I cannot stand.

I agree.

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07 Nov 2018, 8:45 am

A record number of women have just been elected, including two Muslims, two Native Americans, and a Democratic Socialist.

The 'Rich Old White Men's Club' is crumbling, and to hell with it!

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07 Nov 2018, 8:55 am

Mona Pereth wrote:

sly279 wrote:

How is men having their legs spread hurting women’s rights?

That's a bit interesting. In Warsaw public transport, I've maybe once saw the infamous "manspreading" when the car was really empty so it didn't matter. Otherwise there is no such phenomenon. On the other hand, there is a plague of elderly ladies who put their grocery bags on empty seats.
So, is the problem cultural? Yes, here it is more socially acceptable to ask a young man to keep to his seat than to do the same to an old woman.

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07 Nov 2018, 8:59 am

sly279 wrote:

CockneyRebel wrote:

I think that first wave feminism was necessary. I really dislike today's brand of feminism. I wouldn't mind it if women in North America were standing up for the rights of women all around the world.

That’d be racist as Muslim nations in Middle East and Africa treat women like s**t but saying anything would mean your racist against Muslims.

Depends how you go about it.

Personally, I do think one of feminism's top priorities should be support for religious reformers within all the world's major religions -- including American Christianity as well as other religions both here and around the world.

By the way, if you don't think there's any threat to women from within American Christianity, see, for example, Christian Patriarchy/Quiverfull and The Daughters' Great Escape. These are admittedly among the more extreme examples. But it's commonplace (though not universal) among fundamentalist/evangelical Christians in general to promote the idea the women are supposed to be subservient to their husbands.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 07 Nov 2018, 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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07 Nov 2018, 9:13 am

Yep...I'd have to say that sects of Christianity of a Fundamentalist bent have the tendency to relegate women to a subservient position within their hierarchy----and relegate women to subservient positions within their families as well.

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07 Nov 2018, 1:27 pm

It depends on what you mean. If you mean equal rights before the law for both sexes, then certainly I approve. Of course it stopped being about that several decades ago.

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07 Nov 2018, 1:30 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Why should working for the good of one's family be considered an INVARIABLY inferior station? Its strikes me as being vastly better than abandoning one's children out of some mania for the absurd neo-liberal image of "success".

The fact is, many on the left betray their own bigotry by concluding that caring for a family MUST be a waste of time, regardless of what the individual woman wants herself.

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07 Nov 2018, 5:38 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:

Why should working for the good of one's family be considered an INVARIABLY inferior station?

It may or may not be, depending on various other circumstances, but that's not the point here. The point is that many evangelical/fundamentalist Christians believe not only that a woman should stay home and take care of her kids, but that women are obliged to be submissive to their husbands. In fact, they believe that women are obliged to be submissive to their husbands regardless of household work arrangements. How familiar are you with evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity?

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 07 Nov 2018, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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07 Nov 2018, 5:44 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Prometheus18 wrote:

Why should working for the good of one's family be considered an INVARIABLY inferior station?

It may or may not be, depending on various other circumstances, but that's not the point here. The point is that many evangelical/fundamentalist Christians believe not only that a woman should stay home and take care of her kids, but that women are obliged to be submissive to their husbands. How familiar are you with evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity?

I'm only too familiar with fundamentalist Christianity, though I'm an atheist myself. Yes, a wife has duties to her husband according to traditional Christianity; so does a husband to his wife. I'd say all in all a husband's duties are probably more exacting.

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07 Nov 2018, 6:01 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:

In theory that may be true. However, requiring the wife to be submissive puts her at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to resolving any problems in the relationship.

BTW, I have no issue with a woman who happens to prefer a submissive role most of the time, as long as that is truly her choice rather than something that has been imposed on her, and as long as she is free to break out of that role when needed. If she is forbidden or strongly discouraged from stepping out of that role, that can cause all manner of big problems.

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07 Nov 2018, 7:05 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Prometheus18 wrote:

Why should working for the good of one's family be considered an INVARIABLY inferior station?

It's not just about women in fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity. Men can be treated like sh*t in religion too, because just "thinking or looking at women" or having sexual desire is biological for men from teens and on, it's not inherent to rape or "adultery". I no longer praise God a lot because this is one of the things that are BS. So much for Christianity and religions only disfavoring women.

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07 Nov 2018, 10:44 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

I agree that fundamentalist religion imposes hardships on men too. However, the main issue of specific relevance to feminism is that most forms of fundamentalist religion typically prescribe male supremacist power relationships.

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08 Nov 2018, 4:45 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

I just don't see the argument for "male supremacist power" as you describe to be a convincing or strong one, at least for religion in the Western or developed countries. I think the "power relationships" you talked about were applied to both men and women, even not necessarily in the same ways.

And I'm not going to argue about who is in power right now in the US or elsewhere. They or their rhetoric aren't relevant to the rest of our mass culture.

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08 Nov 2018, 6:15 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

Mona Pereth wrote:

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

I just don't see the argument for "male supremacist power" as you describe to be a convincing or strong one, at least for religion in the Western or developed countries.

See, for example Husbands, Wives, Headship, and Submission on a website of the Southern Baptist Convention. That page is a defense of an official Southern Baptist policy statement in favor of male supremacy within marriage. I'm sure I could easily find other, similar official statements from other conservative/evangelical/fundamentalist Christian organizations.

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

I think the "power relationships" you talked about were applied to both men and women, even not necessarily in the same ways.

??? I don't understand what you are saying here.

Hollywood_Guy wrote:

And I'm not going to argue about who is in power right now in the US or elsewhere. They or their rhetoric aren't relevant to the rest of our mass culture.

By "they" in that last sentence, are you referring to fundamentalists/evangelicals?

Don't underestimate the political power of an alliance of cohesive subcultures. The Republican Party gets a lot of its energy from the religious right wing.

I should also point out that one of the longterm aims of the Christian patriarchy/Quiverfull movement is to outpopulate the rest of us by having lots and lots of babies, with the eventual aim of dominating the country both politically and culturally. Whether they succeed will depend on how many of their children remain within the fold. But there certainly IS a potential longterm threat.

In the shorter term, there is now significant danger to abortion rights, thanks to the Republican Party's relationship with the religious right wing.

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