26 Oct 2020, 11:48 pm
27 Oct 2020, 12:02 am
Tim_Tex wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump is also on the vaccines-lead-to-autism kick. Something I think few of us on WP agree with, let alone tolerate.
By the end of today, we're likely to have Amy Coney Barrett on the Supreme Court, and she is likely to side with the anti-vax people in the name of "freedom".
She is an extremely intelligent person, hence, not an anti-vaxer.
I will bet you left testicle on that.
27 Oct 2020, 12:06 am
AspiePrincess611 wrote:
HacKING wrote:
As an aspie who supports Donald Trump, I have came up with a list of why many aspies may end up becoming Trump supporters.
-Dislike of collectivism.
Many aspies are fiercely individualistic, be it in interests or attitude. The left's worldview is based on collectivism and compliance to a group identity, and includes proposals that often tread on individual liberties such as freedom of speech. This may push away an aspie who believes strongly in individualism.
-Watching liberals try to debate.
This was a big one for me. All over the place both in my personal interactions and others' online, I've seen a consistent lack of civility and coolheadedness among those on the left. I'm not saying it's exclusive to them but anecdotally it seems much more common for the left to get very emotional which is... highly illogical.
-His unorthodox style.
Many aspies are also unorthodox in their own style, so they may relate to somebody like him who says whatever is on his mind no matter how bizzare it is.
-He is anti elite/anti establishment.
We've all met those snooty, pretentious individuals that patronize and mock us. Maybe it's over our ASD or maybe it's something else, but society is rife with those who feel they are intellectually superior to others. This elitist attitude permeates all of our entertainment-media complex, and as we know that same complex hates Trump. So by siding with Trump, it can often feel like siding against all the people in our lives who have treated us as if we were less than them.
-Resistance to change.
Trump's opponents want to radically change the fabric of America. To somebody with ASD who is content with the current order, the sweeping changes they propose may simply be "too different" for them.
-
-Dislike of collectivism.
Many aspies are fiercely individualistic, be it in interests or attitude. The left's worldview is based on collectivism and compliance to a group identity, and includes proposals that often tread on individual liberties such as freedom of speech. This may push away an aspie who believes strongly in individualism.
-Watching liberals try to debate.
This was a big one for me. All over the place both in my personal interactions and others' online, I've seen a consistent lack of civility and coolheadedness among those on the left. I'm not saying it's exclusive to them but anecdotally it seems much more common for the left to get very emotional which is... highly illogical.
-His unorthodox style.
Many aspies are also unorthodox in their own style, so they may relate to somebody like him who says whatever is on his mind no matter how bizzare it is.
-He is anti elite/anti establishment.
We've all met those snooty, pretentious individuals that patronize and mock us. Maybe it's over our ASD or maybe it's something else, but society is rife with those who feel they are intellectually superior to others. This elitist attitude permeates all of our entertainment-media complex, and as we know that same complex hates Trump. So by siding with Trump, it can often feel like siding against all the people in our lives who have treated us as if we were less than them.
-Resistance to change.
Trump's opponents want to radically change the fabric of America. To somebody with ASD who is content with the current order, the sweeping changes they propose may simply be "too different" for them.
-
As a fellow Trump-supporting aspie, I think you "hit the nail on the head". I've gotten a lot of hate on WP lately because it seems like there are so many leftists. It's wonderful to meet someone who is like me - both conservative and on the spectrum. Thank you for your post
Yeah. So many left-wing people on this website.
A bit of an imbalance.
27 Oct 2020, 12:09 am
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
AspiePrincess611 wrote:
HacKING wrote:
As an aspie who supports Donald Trump, I have came up with a list of why many aspies may end up becoming Trump supporters.
-Dislike of collectivism.
Many aspies are fiercely individualistic, be it in interests or attitude. The left's worldview is based on collectivism and compliance to a group identity, and includes proposals that often tread on individual liberties such as freedom of speech. This may push away an aspie who believes strongly in individualism.
-Watching liberals try to debate.
This was a big one for me. All over the place both in my personal interactions and others' online, I've seen a consistent lack of civility and coolheadedness among those on the left. I'm not saying it's exclusive to them but anecdotally it seems much more common for the left to get very emotional which is... highly illogical.
-His unorthodox style.
Many aspies are also unorthodox in their own style, so they may relate to somebody like him who says whatever is on his mind no matter how bizzare it is.
-He is anti elite/anti establishment.
We've all met those snooty, pretentious individuals that patronize and mock us. Maybe it's over our ASD or maybe it's something else, but society is rife with those who feel they are intellectually superior to others. This elitist attitude permeates all of our entertainment-media complex, and as we know that same complex hates Trump. So by siding with Trump, it can often feel like siding against all the people in our lives who have treated us as if we were less than them.
-Resistance to change.
Trump's opponents want to radically change the fabric of America. To somebody with ASD who is content with the current order, the sweeping changes they propose may simply be "too different" for them.
-
-Dislike of collectivism.
Many aspies are fiercely individualistic, be it in interests or attitude. The left's worldview is based on collectivism and compliance to a group identity, and includes proposals that often tread on individual liberties such as freedom of speech. This may push away an aspie who believes strongly in individualism.
-Watching liberals try to debate.
This was a big one for me. All over the place both in my personal interactions and others' online, I've seen a consistent lack of civility and coolheadedness among those on the left. I'm not saying it's exclusive to them but anecdotally it seems much more common for the left to get very emotional which is... highly illogical.
-His unorthodox style.
Many aspies are also unorthodox in their own style, so they may relate to somebody like him who says whatever is on his mind no matter how bizzare it is.
-He is anti elite/anti establishment.
We've all met those snooty, pretentious individuals that patronize and mock us. Maybe it's over our ASD or maybe it's something else, but society is rife with those who feel they are intellectually superior to others. This elitist attitude permeates all of our entertainment-media complex, and as we know that same complex hates Trump. So by siding with Trump, it can often feel like siding against all the people in our lives who have treated us as if we were less than them.
-Resistance to change.
Trump's opponents want to radically change the fabric of America. To somebody with ASD who is content with the current order, the sweeping changes they propose may simply be "too different" for them.
-
As a fellow Trump-supporting aspie, I think you "hit the nail on the head". I've gotten a lot of hate on WP lately because it seems like there are so many leftists. It's wonderful to meet someone who is like me - both conservative and on the spectrum. Thank you for your post
Yeah, that hate is also unnecessary. But people are going to continue to twist facts and hate in the name of being the "compassionate and caring" people when they are in fact the real sowers of division themselves.
It has been like that in the past.
Things are getting better now, though.
27 Oct 2020, 12:15 am
Fnord wrote:
Q: Why do people follow (e.g., Worship) Donald J. Trump?
[opinion=mine]
A: Likely because many of them (at least, the most vocal ones) seem to fall into one or more of the following categories, based on the means and methods they use to defend him and their own devotion to him.
• THE AUTHORITARIANS & THE HOLY ROLLERS: There are those who would truly prefer an authoritarian, nationalist moral order over our current democratic government. They believe America would be a better place if everyone were required to follow their beliefs, and they support the false premise that Trump's actions provide a path to an outcome where everyone is effectively required to believe as they do. Those who support the Christian Dominionism movement seem to fit into both of the above two categories. Dominionists fundamentally oppose church-state separation -- in fact, dominionists erroneously deny that America's founders ever intended such a separation in the first place, despite it being implicitely stated in the First Amendment.
• THE DESTROYERS: There are those who embrace Trump primarily because of his calls to rebel against the established bureaucracy and his promises to destroy a system that they see as having left white working-class people poorer and forgotten over recent decades. Many of these people seem permanently blinded or unable to intellectually grasp the fact that Trump's actual actions show him to be pursuing a reality that is far worse for them than the system he has pledged to destroy ... or in some cases, they simply do not care, adopting the perspective that if their way of life is going to be screwed, then everyone else's should be as well.
• THE GASLIGHTED: There are those who seem directly affected and overwhelmed by the various gaslighting and distortion techniques that Trump employs to confuse, distract, and disorient. It is rare to hear Trump speak for more than a minute without him employing faulty reasoning and emotional appeal tactics that often include:
o Belittling and dismissiveness
o Blame reflection and deflection
o Blatant lying
o Bullying, shaming, raging and threatening
o Deconstructive conditioning
o Devaluation
o Exaggeration
o Fear-mongering
o Idealization
o Isolation
o Normalization
o Projection
o Reality denial
o Rewriting history
o Self-aggrandizement
o Self-victimization
o ... and much more.
• THE HILLARY & OBAMA HATERS: There are those whose hatred for Hillary and Obama (for a wide variety of reasons) has led them to such a rage that it has effectively blinded them to the reality that Trump is typically far worse at supporting their interests on those very same issues on which they have assailed Hillary and Obama with criticism. These people often follow in POTUS's footsteps by trying to persuade others by using faulty reasoning techniques like "false equivalence" and "whataboutism", a propaganda technique formerly used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world. Today in America this technique is used to try to change the subject while deflecting criticism of Trump on to either the irrelevant or imagined failings of Obama or Hillary.
• THE IGNORANT & THE WILLFULLY IGNORANT: There are those who either hide in ignorance or lack the capacity to grasp the complexities of the real world. Many make no effort to know or care about American politics beyond those few issues that affect them directly and immediately.
• THE INFALLIBLE: Some people find themselves unable to back away from a previously stated position, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, because they share Trump's psychological need to always be right and never concede error, clinging to his assertions like a drunk to an empty gin bottle.
• THE LOYAL: There are those whose indoctrination to political or religious loyalty, or peer pressure from those who are so indoctrinated and part of their social or business circles, effectively prohibits them from doing anything but support the party line. This has occurred in an environment where it is obvious that POTUS is a pretender to following either the principles of the Republican Party or the Christian religion that they claim to support and embrace.
• THE PRAGMATICS: The "end justifies the means" people support Trump because they adopt the perspective of being self-serving pragmatists. They blind themselves to the very real possibility that putting a mentally unwell and/or morally bankrupt person into office could lead to repercussions that would completely destroy their way of life.
• THE PREJUDICED: Being both racist and misogynistic, Trump of course acts as a magnet to attract those who are truly racist and misogynistic, as well as the xenophobic.
• THE PROFITEERS: There are those who see opportunities for direct personal gain from Trump's continued presidency, often in terribly perverse ways.
That so many seem to truly believe Trump's "I alone can fix it" mantra is a tribute to the cultish following that has resulted from the successfulness of his gaslighting efforts; and to how resistant some of his followers have become to caring that Trump's alternative realities fail to align with empirical observations of the real world.
[/opinion]
[opinion=mine]
A: Likely because many of them (at least, the most vocal ones) seem to fall into one or more of the following categories, based on the means and methods they use to defend him and their own devotion to him.
• THE AUTHORITARIANS & THE HOLY ROLLERS: There are those who would truly prefer an authoritarian, nationalist moral order over our current democratic government. They believe America would be a better place if everyone were required to follow their beliefs, and they support the false premise that Trump's actions provide a path to an outcome where everyone is effectively required to believe as they do. Those who support the Christian Dominionism movement seem to fit into both of the above two categories. Dominionists fundamentally oppose church-state separation -- in fact, dominionists erroneously deny that America's founders ever intended such a separation in the first place, despite it being implicitely stated in the First Amendment.
• THE DESTROYERS: There are those who embrace Trump primarily because of his calls to rebel against the established bureaucracy and his promises to destroy a system that they see as having left white working-class people poorer and forgotten over recent decades. Many of these people seem permanently blinded or unable to intellectually grasp the fact that Trump's actual actions show him to be pursuing a reality that is far worse for them than the system he has pledged to destroy ... or in some cases, they simply do not care, adopting the perspective that if their way of life is going to be screwed, then everyone else's should be as well.
• THE GASLIGHTED: There are those who seem directly affected and overwhelmed by the various gaslighting and distortion techniques that Trump employs to confuse, distract, and disorient. It is rare to hear Trump speak for more than a minute without him employing faulty reasoning and emotional appeal tactics that often include:
o Belittling and dismissiveness
o Blame reflection and deflection
o Blatant lying
o Bullying, shaming, raging and threatening
o Deconstructive conditioning
o Devaluation
o Exaggeration
o Fear-mongering
o Idealization
o Isolation
o Normalization
o Projection
o Reality denial
o Rewriting history
o Self-aggrandizement
o Self-victimization
o ... and much more.
• THE HILLARY & OBAMA HATERS: There are those whose hatred for Hillary and Obama (for a wide variety of reasons) has led them to such a rage that it has effectively blinded them to the reality that Trump is typically far worse at supporting their interests on those very same issues on which they have assailed Hillary and Obama with criticism. These people often follow in POTUS's footsteps by trying to persuade others by using faulty reasoning techniques like "false equivalence" and "whataboutism", a propaganda technique formerly used by the Soviet Union in its dealings with the Western world. When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world. Today in America this technique is used to try to change the subject while deflecting criticism of Trump on to either the irrelevant or imagined failings of Obama or Hillary.
• THE IGNORANT & THE WILLFULLY IGNORANT: There are those who either hide in ignorance or lack the capacity to grasp the complexities of the real world. Many make no effort to know or care about American politics beyond those few issues that affect them directly and immediately.
• THE INFALLIBLE: Some people find themselves unable to back away from a previously stated position, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, because they share Trump's psychological need to always be right and never concede error, clinging to his assertions like a drunk to an empty gin bottle.
• THE LOYAL: There are those whose indoctrination to political or religious loyalty, or peer pressure from those who are so indoctrinated and part of their social or business circles, effectively prohibits them from doing anything but support the party line. This has occurred in an environment where it is obvious that POTUS is a pretender to following either the principles of the Republican Party or the Christian religion that they claim to support and embrace.
• THE PRAGMATICS: The "end justifies the means" people support Trump because they adopt the perspective of being self-serving pragmatists. They blind themselves to the very real possibility that putting a mentally unwell and/or morally bankrupt person into office could lead to repercussions that would completely destroy their way of life.
• THE PREJUDICED: Being both racist and misogynistic, Trump of course acts as a magnet to attract those who are truly racist and misogynistic, as well as the xenophobic.
• THE PROFITEERS: There are those who see opportunities for direct personal gain from Trump's continued presidency, often in terribly perverse ways.
That so many seem to truly believe Trump's "I alone can fix it" mantra is a tribute to the cultish following that has resulted from the successfulness of his gaslighting efforts; and to how resistant some of his followers have become to caring that Trump's alternative realities fail to align with empirical observations of the real world.
[/opinion]
Impressive post.
27 Oct 2020, 1:04 am
Pepe wrote:
Yeah. So many left-wing people on this website.
A bit of an imbalance.
That or you're unaware of the fact you may have been voting against your own interests.
_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos
27 Oct 2020, 1:56 am
cberg wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yeah. So many left-wing people on this website.
A bit of an imbalance.
That or you're unaware of the fact you may have been voting against your own interests.
Equally possible, they are voting for the country's interests as a whole, rather than selfishly voting in a way that gives personal "gain"...
Just because a person believes voting a given way is the "best" option, does not mean that the information\judgment used to make the decision is not lacking details\information. Each person has free will, is in a different situation, with different needs\desires\understanding of events, access to different information, and so has a right to vote for the person they see as best suited for the position.
Some may take a selfish "what is best for me" outlook, while others may take a more selfless "what is best for the community\nation" view. Platforms from one party that a person sees as being good may be seen as bad by another, based on a different set of priorities.
As a side note: It is interesting to see so many people on this site trying to force\coerce others to their beliefs\opinion, rather than reasoning with\persuading them. This comes across as though the person forcing their belief\opinion is unconvinced of their choice and requires it to be "validated" by having others "agree". A person confident in their choice is happy to have a reasoned, non-judgmental discussion with those holding different views, and would have no need to try and coerce others into agreeing with them, nor would they take a judgemental approach with a person who disagrees with\sees things differently to them.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
27 Oct 2020, 4:47 am
Brictoria wrote:
cberg wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yeah. So many left-wing people on this website.
A bit of an imbalance.
That or you're unaware of the fact you may have been voting against your own interests.
Equally possible, they are voting for the country's interests as a whole, rather than selfishly voting in a way that gives personal "gain"...
Just because a person believes voting a given way is the "best" option, does not mean that the information\judgment used to make the decision is not lacking details\information. Each person has free will, is in a different situation, with different needs\desires\understanding of events, access to different information, and so has a right to vote for the person they see as best suited for the position.
Some may take a selfish "what is best for me" outlook, while others may take a more selfless "what is best for the community\nation" view. Platforms from one party that a person sees as being good may be seen as bad by another, based on a different set of priorities.
As a side note: It is interesting to see so many people on this site trying to force\coerce others to their beliefs\opinion, rather than reasoning with\persuading them. This comes across as though the person forcing their belief\opinion is unconvinced of their choice and requires it to be "validated" by having others "agree". A person confident in their choice is happy to have a reasoned, non-judgmental discussion with those holding different views, and would have no need to try and coerce others into agreeing with them, nor would they take a judgemental approach with a person who disagrees with\sees things differently to them.
That supposed selflessness of voters hypothetically interested in the good of the whole country only plays into the hands of selfish elites controlling big business. When enough voters look out for their own self interest, then the whole country benefits as people at the base of the pyramid have enough spare money to keep the economy chugging along.
27 Oct 2020, 7:42 am
cberg wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yeah. So many left-wing people on this website.
A bit of an imbalance.
That or you're unaware of the fact you may have been voting against your own interests.
I'll bet anything Pepe votes for Trump in person at his local ballot station.
Last edited by Tempus Fugit on 27 Oct 2020, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
27 Oct 2020, 7:44 am
27 Oct 2020, 7:45 am
27 Oct 2020, 7:47 am
AspiePrincess611
Deinonychus
Joined: 5 Jun 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 354
Location: at the Mountains of Madness
27 Oct 2020, 8:00 am
cberg wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Yeah. So many left-wing people on this website.
A bit of an imbalance.
That or you're unaware of the fact you may have been voting against your own interests.
I've said before, that nearly all of my interests personally are represented by the right. The small number of things that may not be are things that can be achieved outside of the government. There are plenty of organizations to help those of us with autism and other disabilities. And I believe that conservatives would probably support government programs to help the disabled become or remain employed. These programs help us to support ourselves and not rely on things like SSDI and food stamps. I feel that self-reliance, to the greatest extent possible, should be the end goal of all programs to help the disabled or the poor. Trump would likely agree.
27 Oct 2020, 8:35 am
27 Oct 2020, 9:12 am
Tempus Fugit wrote:
Steve1963 wrote:
^ I believe he's an Aussie...so you'd lose that bet.
He is? Oh rats. Well then I'll make the same bet except I'll change it to Brictoria.
Well, I DID vote this month and sent my ballot in, but it wasn't for Mr Trump...
And I'm an Aussie, too, BTW
27 Oct 2020, 9:37 am
