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The Woke Generation - Fighting Back

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techstepgenr8tion
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26 Jun 2021, 11:03 am

Four minute response to a question by Eric Kaufmann. Relatively anodyne, at least in 2010 terms:


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cyberdad
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26 Jun 2021, 9:25 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Four minute response to a question by Eric Kaufmann. Relatively anodyne, at least in 2010 terms:



Kaufmann (who like 50% of white Americans has a german ancestor) is positing that America has its roots in Anglo-Protestant culture. But I would posit how relevant these roots are in 2021??

English has its roots in Anglo-Saxon culture but nobody talks of Germanic cultural heritage?

His arguments are based on projections of the importance of the past Vs the reality of the present. He is trying to deconstruct cultural evolution and ignore that cultures change over time. Conservatives argue that western culture is changing too fast. But their own nations are the agents of change. Globalisation and immigration have forever changed his sentimental notions and he and other conservatives cling to an image of America that died and should be buried.

Anglo-protestant identity is a myth



techstepgenr8tion
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26 Jun 2021, 9:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kaufmann (who like 50% of white Americans has a german ancestor) is positing that America has its roots in Anglo-Protestant culture. But I would posit how relevant these roots are in 2021??

English has its roots in Anglo-Saxon culture but nobody talks of Germanic cultural heritage?

His arguments are based on projections of the importance of the past Vs the reality of the present. He is trying to deconstruct cultural evolution and ignore that cultures change over time. Conservatives argue that western culture is changing too fast. But their own nations are the agents of change. Globalisation and immigration have forever changed his sentimental notions and he and other conservatives cling to an image of America that died and should be buried.

Anglo-protestant identity is a myth

Are you talking about Kaufmann's views from other videos? He didn't touch on any of that in this one.


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cyberdad
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26 Jun 2021, 9:54 pm

I was talking about his book "The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America"

About how some conservatives strive to maintain an American ethno-national identity which is not relevant in 2021



techstepgenr8tion
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26 Jun 2021, 10:03 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I was talking about his book "The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America"

About how some conservatives strive to maintain an American ethno-national identity which is not relevant in 2021

Yeah, that's not something that's front and center for me.

The video was a completely different topic and in some ways was a partial recap of Jonathan Haidt's "Two incompatible sacred values in American universities" lecture. Scientific truth and social justice should not be a zero sum game. To the degree that they end up being in a zero-sum game it's the solipsism at the fringes wielding the power of the movement in inappropriate ways. It's a game theory problem and the sort of thing that's really at the core of the left-of-center backlash.

Really it looks like every race's violent solipsists are dominating every race's adults right now while our so-called elites steel everything that isn't nailed down (and I'm pretty sure using the social chaos as a distraction / cover). We're a nuclear country. that's a big problem.


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26 Jun 2021, 10:34 pm

cyberdad wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Four minute response to a question by Eric Kaufmann. Relatively anodyne, at least in 2010 terms:



Kaufmann (who like 50% of white Americans has a german ancestor) is positing that America has its roots in Anglo-Protestant culture. But I would posit how relevant these roots are in 2021??

English has its roots in Anglo-Saxon culture but nobody talks of Germanic cultural heritage?


I have and do, but never in this context.
I will suggest that the civil liberties that Anglo societies embrace are more due to them being norms within Germanic societies than they're owed to Greeks or Romans though.

Although that's certainly a tune from another opera.


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26 Jun 2021, 10:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well that's the question though because you don't see characters like that anymore, and you don't see near as many female characters sexualized anymore, so I don't know if people would accept it if it's well executed, since no one is trying to make a well executed movie of those things anymore it seems.



Was Elle Woods sexualized or just a bimbo?


Oh just a bimbo I thought. Why?


Because if she's disempowered by being turned into a th*t that's worse than just being a bimbo who's actually accomplishing in spite of being a bimbo.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


cyberdad
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26 Jun 2021, 10:36 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
The video was a completely different topic and in some ways was a partial recap of Jonathan Haidt's "Two incompatible sacred values in American universities" lecture. Scientific truth and social justice should not be a zero sum game. To the degree that they end up being in a zero-sum game it's the solipsism at the fringes wielding the power of the movement in inappropriate ways. It's a game theory problem and the sort of thing that's really at the core of the left-of-center backlash..


These issues are universal in the "Anglo-sphere" at least. Universities have been at the centre opposition to vestiges of Anglo-protestant social/cultural dominance. Both in Australia and the US the anti-communist purge of the late 1940s and 1950s targeted university intellectuals who dared question why social justice was being conflated with communism? This explained the rise of student movements on campuses who protested on behalf of oppressed minorities but also against imperialism where countries like the US and Australia were participating in neo-colonial ventures in South America, Indonesia, Korea and Vietnam. Meanwhile women were protesting against protestant and catholic christian institutions who sought to control their bodies and their social status.



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26 Jun 2021, 10:38 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
I will suggest that the civil liberties that Anglo societies embrace are more due to them being norms within Germanic societies than they're owed to Greeks or Romans though..


Sorry the context is one of modern 21st century identitarian politics.



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26 Jun 2021, 10:52 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I will suggest that the civil liberties that Anglo societies embrace are more due to them being norms within Germanic societies than they're owed to Greeks or Romans though..


Sorry the context is one of modern 21st century identitarian politics.


I understand, like I said, that's a very different conversation. :nerdy:


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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27 Jun 2021, 1:28 am

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well that's the question though because you don't see characters like that anymore, and you don't see near as many female characters sexualized anymore, so I don't know if people would accept it if it's well executed, since no one is trying to make a well executed movie of those things anymore it seems.



Was Elle Woods sexualized or just a bimbo?


Oh just a bimbo I thought. Why?


Because if she's disempowered by being turned into a th*t that's worse than just being a bimbo who's actually accomplishing in spite of being a bimbo.


Sorry, what do you mean by a th*t?



cyberdad
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27 Jun 2021, 1:40 am

ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well that's the question though because you don't see characters like that anymore, and you don't see near as many female characters sexualized anymore, so I don't know if people would accept it if it's well executed, since no one is trying to make a well executed movie of those things anymore it seems.



Was Elle Woods sexualized or just a bimbo?


Oh just a bimbo I thought. Why?


Because if she's disempowered by being turned into a th*t that's worse than just being a bimbo who's actually accomplishing in spite of being a bimbo.


Sorry, what do you mean by a th*t?


th*t = that hoe over there



ironpony
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27 Jun 2021, 2:11 am

Oh okay, I didn't think that Elle Woods was a th*t at all in that context.



techstepgenr8tion
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27 Jun 2021, 7:46 am

cyberdad wrote:
These issues are universal in the "Anglo-sphere" at least. Universities have been at the centre opposition to vestiges of Anglo-protestant social/cultural dominance. Both in Australia and the US the anti-communist purge of the late 1940s and 1950s targeted university intellectuals who dared question why social justice was being conflated with communism? This explained the rise of student movements on campuses who protested on behalf of oppressed minorities but also against imperialism where countries like the US and Australia were participating in neo-colonial ventures in South America, Indonesia, Korea and Vietnam. Meanwhile women were protesting against protestant and catholic christian institutions who sought to control their bodies and their social status.

I guess I should ask since the trajectory of this conversation's a bit hard to follow - is that taking the interpretation of the metaphor 'truth university' as 'white hegemony university' or is it something else entirely?


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ironpony
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27 Jun 2021, 4:20 pm

Well I said before that I usually prefer European and Asian movies for not having gone 'woke', but does that mean that Europe and Asia are more progressive for not letting such issues comes into storytelling, or are they more regressive for not letting those issues into their stories?



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27 Jun 2021, 6:25 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well I said before that I usually prefer European and Asian movies for not having gone 'woke',


The movies you are referring to are not watched by most American audiences.