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ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 7:44 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:



aghogday
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13 Apr 2012, 8:03 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
aghogday, my point is that the suppsed psychological benefit is not happening because of wearing the heels. it is happening because of how the person thinks they are being perceived by OTHERS when they have them on. that isn't really a benefit if it depends on other people. cultural conditioning can be an ugly thing indeed if it persuades one to equate deforming one's feet with beauty.


Attractiveness to men is one of the reasons women wear heels, but not the only evidenced reason.

As a social primate, innate physical characteristics give some humans advantages over others, as evidenced in many scientific studies on height, both with women and men.

That's part of the human primate instinct; heels provide a tool to provide a literal lift of confidence, per the primate instinct of dominance, in the professional and private world. In these cases heels can be part of the requirement for the psychological confidence provided by height as it instinctually relates to dominance and power.

This is an issue that is not specific to males. Studies provide evidence for it. And some use the tool of heels for this advantage in dominance:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200310/tall-people-get-paid-more

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2007-07-17-ceo-dominant-behavior_N.htm

Not all men or women are as equally motivated for dominance per their inherent biological make-up. Levels of hormones have been suggested to play a role, in the fact that some are more comfortable in positions of authority/dominance/positions of status, than others.

In at least one poll close to 20% of women put the advantage of power over pain when it comes to wearing heels, in the corporate environment.

That said, in my opinion, regardless of how rich someone becomes, in part, because of a height advantage, or how concerned one is with fashion, or attractiveness, or competition among the same gender, it's not worth the destruction of one's feet in the long run.

But, people can become psychologically addicted to almost anything in life; and potentially physically addicted, particularly if it is related to food, sex, power, and/or stimulation.

The negative impacts of cultural conditioning, particularly in recent modern culture, is extremely powerful, and potentially dangerous, in many ways that are more subtle than the "pitfalls" of high heels.

Many would not likely accept some of the elements are dangers, even now that they are becoming empirically evidenced as such, because of the addiction to positive gratification, that has become a way of life for many.

As social animals, research provides evidence that social connections are the number one factor associated with happiness. That is another inherent aspect of being a social primate; there is a measurable intrinsic reward for human cooperation, that most enjoy in life.

Many of the positive psychological benefits of life are dependent on others; there are not many people that escape that reality.

Wearing high heels is an aspect of non-verbal communication. Corsets and girdles were also not a healthy adaptation for non-verbal communication; a good thing for women that are no longer being conditioned to use these devices as cultural adaptations deemed necessary by some for attractiveness.

High heels don't appear to be as popular as they used to be; if so, that's a healthy trend. :)

I don't disagree with the validity of your specific points. Just expanding the discussion to include additional factors.



hyperlexian
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13 Apr 2012, 8:16 pm

shorter women are considered more attractive by men (on average) than taller women, so diminutive height can also a reason for confidence in some cases.

high heels don't actually make a woman taller. every person can see where she got her height from, so it is not an actual source of power. also, it is negated by the hobbling effect. women appear much more vulnerable in heels because they cannot run or properly defend themselves (their balance is sketchy and they are easily thrown off balance).

you can see women quite often appearing to be concentrating as they walk. that doesn't look confident.


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hyperlexian
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13 Apr 2012, 8:19 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


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Joker
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13 Apr 2012, 8:22 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


Thank you for doing that WP mother.



hyperlexian
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13 Apr 2012, 8:23 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
for me, i wear shoes that allow me to do a wide range of activities without needing to fuss around changing footwear. my ankle boots work for formal wear, light snow, rain, hiking, urban exploration, whatever. sexy is not part of the equation at all.


Shall we say to each her own? :lol:

sure. what i strive for is for people to really uncover what underlies their reflexive reactions to things. in my ideal world people would be mindful of why they do the things that they do.

i had one male friend who explained to me that some men like women to have high heels because it looks like they look like they are trying extra hard to get male attention. and it looks unnatural and kind of tippy, which can apparently be a turn-on. i don't know if that is actually true for other males, but it's an interesting theory.


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ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 8:55 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


:hail:



ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 9:21 pm

Joker wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


Thank you for doing that WP mother.


That expression of gratitude raises an interesting question: Is the feminist preoccupation with power related to maternal instincts?



Joker
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13 Apr 2012, 9:23 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


Thank you for doing that WP mother.


That expression of gratitude raises an interesting question: Is the feminist preoccupation with power related to maternal instincts?


I don't think feminism has anything to do with power out all.



ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 9:25 pm

Joker wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


Thank you for doing that WP mother.


That expression of gratitude raises an interesting question: Is the feminist preoccupation with power related to maternal instincts?


I don't think feminism has anything to do with power out all.


Are you saying that the thread was a waste? :|



Joker
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13 Apr 2012, 9:27 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^
Women do things other than dance, y'know. :lol:


Sorry, but I just can't think of anything else that women do right now. :wink:

that's enough, ArrantPariah. i removed the last set of videos.


Thank you for doing that WP mother.


That expression of gratitude raises an interesting question: Is the feminist preoccupation with power related to maternal instincts?


I don't think feminism has anything to do with power out all.


Are you saying that the thread was a waste? :|


It didn't start out that way but now yes I am afriad it has turned into one.



ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 9:36 pm

Joker wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
I don't think feminism has anything to do with power out all.


Are you saying that the thread was a waste? :|


It didn't start out that way but now yes I am afriad it has turned into one.


The thread title was "Feminist Preoccupation with Power." If feminists are not preoccupied with power, then there never was anything to discuss in the first place. Why are you suddenly proffering that declaration, here on page 35?

And, if feminism has nothing to do with power at all, then what is feminism about?



Joker
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13 Apr 2012, 9:45 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Joker wrote:
I don't think feminism has anything to do with power out all.


Are you saying that the thread was a waste? :|


It didn't start out that way but now yes I am afriad it has turned into one.


The thread title was "Feminist Preoccupation with Power." If feminists are not preoccupied with power, then there never was anything to discuss in the first place. Why are you suddenly proffering that declaration, here on page 35?

And, if feminism has nothing to do with power at all, then what is feminism about?


Yes I know that Lad. Feminism is is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is a "person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism.

Now which part of that has to do with power?



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13 Apr 2012, 9:50 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Care rationing is how free healthcare works.


I have never once had any problems with my healthcare, nor do I know anybody who has. Death panels and care rationing are a fabrication.


You're right. Free healthcare will let you get any medical procedure you need no matter how expensive. :roll:


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ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 9:58 pm

Joker wrote:
Yes I know that Lad. Feminism is is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist is a "person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism.

Now which part of that has to do with power?


One cannot establish and defend rights for women without power.



ArrantPariah
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13 Apr 2012, 9:59 pm

Ragtime wrote:
You're right. Free healthcare will let you get any medical procedure you need no matter how expensive. :roll:


Hurray! :cheers:

Right on topic, too! :cheers: