Feminist preoccupation with power

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yes i saw that. awesome!! !!

I have seen it myself IRL, but it's somewhat uncommon. And as long time member of okcupid( I joined in october 2005), I am extremely cynical of the okcupid dating trends stats. Many, many women on that site and quite a few other dating sites clearly state that they prefer tall men and it's not uncommon to see a minimum height requirement. I've also been told this personally by women themselves.

hyperlexian:

How do you feel about women who opt for permanent removal of their leg and armpit hair? If I were a woman, you can better believe I'd have saved my money to do it so I wouldn't have to bother shaving regularly.

Last edited by AspieRogue on 14 Apr 2012, 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

women do usually prefer men who are taller than them, yes (with exceptions of course). but that link was to support the fact that men prefer shorter women as opposed to taller women (with exceptions).

i don't really understand why women should be removing their hair at all.

Even crazier than shaving, and on a par with high heels (not physically destructive in the long run, but socially a crazy trend) is the recent proliferation of botox to keep one's forehead from wrinkling.
I can see a couple of circumstances where this might be socially advantageous - professional poker players, for instance, or major events where showing stress would be damaging or stressful to oneself or one's family - but most of the time, it's about the wrinkles. Crazy.

Reproductive control, is at the core of power for the sexes. The pill in 1960, provided the first real opportunity for women to exercise control over reproduction, and Roe vs. Wade extended that right in 1973.

There is evidence that the feminist movement would not of had success in the US, without the ability to control reproduction. It allows a woman control/power over areas of life, that were not afforded in previous decades.

And there is some evidence provided by research that "the pill" has changed mate preferences for females, for a less masculinized male, because ovulation has been linked to female preferences for masculinized males.

Western cultures are becoming more egalitarian and less patriarchal in the course of the last several decades as a direct result of the pill and abortion rights.

In fact research indicates that the pill and abortion rights are responsible for higher levels of satisfaction among women, over and above any of the other women's rights gained from the 60's to the 90's, in the feminist movement.

http://sticerd.lse.ac.uk/dps/adds/silviap/EJ_women_rights.pdf

Men still have the advantage in reproductive control in middle eastern countries where patriarchy is a way of life. This battle of power between the sexes is at the core of why some of these cultures fear the influence of the west. It threatens reproductive control and the power that men have over women in these countries.

However, the Arab Spring movement is having a little impact from within some of the countries in the middle east and northern Africa. Elective abortion, though is still illegal in most of these countries

http://www.voicesofthearabspring.org/1/post/2012/01/-abortion-in-the-middle-east-and-north-africa.html

Any time there is an a debate over abortion rights, the emotions run high, but many of those core emotions rest on the evangelical patriarchs that remain in the US, and those that refuse to relinquish the rights to reproductive control, that there is some evidence that is literally changing the face of mankind, in western cultures.

That's a powerful force.

It is evident in almost every area of media, where masculinity is not the cultural ideal of what it used to be. Starting with Boy George in the Eighties. There is no way that could have happened in the 50's.

LGBT rights and acceptance have been affected and are continuing to be impacted by women's rights, in a positive manner, as well other minority rights.

Testosterone levels have dropped significantly among men born after the 1980's as compared to longitudinal studies of older males.

Many theories have been proposed as to why; many environmental factors could play a role, but it is obvious that if women are choosing less masculine men as mates, because of the pill, since 1960, that this is having an effect on culture, as well the potential for biology.

This likely impacts almost every arena in life; even potentially the symptoms of some ASD's, through the fact that birth control has led to the ability to delay starting of families into the decades of life in the 30's and the 40's, recently shown as a potential factor associated with ASD's.

And, also with higher levels of socio-economic stress, where raising a family with both parents employed, has become the norm required for subsistence, likely leading to potential higher levels of prenatal stress for some, that research suggests may be associated with ASD's.

It is no wonder that this thread has gained the attention that it has, second to the many abortion threads that are much a part of the same issue. As well as issues in the political divide, and with organized religion

The last great frontier for women's rights in the US, is health care for all; already established in many other egalitarian tilted societies. The current approximation of this opportunity would likely not have been possible without the pill, abortion rights, and the women's rights movement.

The democratic party is largely the egalitarian party and the republican party remains as the patriarchal core. Feminine and Masculine elements of each party are evidently proportioned as well in this manner.

Health care extends the potential for reproductive control, as well as control over economic decisions for those that are economically disadvantaged, of which women are still represented in greater numbers than men.

It is Custard's last stand for the remnants of a patriarchal society. The pill was the beginning of the end of patriarchy in western societies. There was really no turning back after that point.

If health care reform stands in the US, and Obama is re-elected; woman's rights, the pill, and Abortion Rights, can take significant credit, for these changes in Society.

Not to mention Nancy Pelosi, one of the most powerful faces of modern feminism, as well as the most villified, even by some whom call themselves feminists, in her part for doing whatever it took, to accomplish the goal of health care reform, in the US.

The remaining opposing forces are jumping through incredible hoops, to try to prevent it from happening. It is likely those forces will grow smaller and smaller as we go into the future, in part, potentially because of biological changes in human beings, as well as cultural changes, started by the introduction of "the Pill", in 1960.

The overall feminist movement in the West, in the last half a Century, is powerful stuff.

If some in the Middle East get scared enough over the threat of it spreading to their countries, there is the eventual potential that, in part, that fear could lead to nuclear conflict.

A potential Ultimate Battle over the power of reproductive control.

Hopefully, forces from within those countries that seek a more egalitarian way of life, can prevent that potential from happening.

The interesting bit is that you wouldn't "have to bother" with it anyway, anymore than (I presume) you do now.

The real world isn't relegated to this or that legal milestone- it's dictated by economic, political, and cultural saturation of misogynist ideals, as dictated by the media and driven by capitalist forces.

There are men so disgusted with women having BODY HAIR that they refuse to have sex with them, for christ's sake.
Let's not even get into how such topics as menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and menopause are viewed.

One need look no further than Beauty contests, to see that the "perfect" ideal of beauty in women, in American Culture, is associated with slender women with long legs and height. The same overall standards apply to many "Super Models".

However, in real life, in the US, statistics through the history of the US, prove out that women seek taller men, and Men seek shorter women for actual relationships. This is a cultural aspect of western cultures, that is not as prevalent in many other cultures in the world. However, historically it has been a factor of dominance not necessarily specific to beauty.

Per Wiki, shorter women are studied as more fertile, along with women with wider hips, and other studies show that men are actually not as sexually attracted to slender women as they are to the more voluptuous type with curves, in part explained by the natural instinct to seek fertility in women and even studied in preferences in pornography.

It is likely that hormones play a part in this. Height is associated with higher levels of testosterone in both women and men.


18% were the statistics as applied to those that were willing to endure pain wearing high heels because they gained a sense of power from wearing the shoes in the work environment, in the US.

However a study by the American Podiatric Medical Association, shows 39 percent of women still wear high heels daily. This is down from the 60 percent who wore high heels back in 1986. However that is still close to 60 million American women who wear high heels on a daily basis. There is a good trend toward the long term health of feet, but much more convincing that is going to have to be done to save the other 120 million feet.

http://www.desipad.com/health/71197-important-facts-about-high-heels.html

As far as who are most concerned about gaining power from a few inches of height, it is those that are concerned with power and status in the corporate environment and other high powered areas where status and power is extremely important. While some women may not be taken seriously wearing high heels because they look overly sexy in them, the impact nor the intent is the same among all women.

Even in politics, in the US, up to the level of the presidency, it is rare to see a woman without high heels to accentuate height, as an equalizer for physical prescence in the media, among male opponents. Neither Sarah Palin, Hillary Clinton, or Michelle Bachman, would be caught without them in front of a TV camera with an opponent. At least out of the three, Hillary Clinton has been taken seriously throughout her career by individuals in both parties.

The sex thing has got in the the way for Bachman and Palin, but Clinton displays a solid level of professionalism that rarely veers from consistency. It is the personalities though that have been the identifiable problem not the heels.

18% of the women who wear high heels in the US, that are willing to endure pain for the feeling of power they gain from wearing the heels, is a minority percentage but really not a small number of women. The percentage comprises close to 11 million women, in the US.

As far as feisty 4'11 women, the feistiest women I ever knew was a portugese women, that never wore high heels and had 6 kids. And the feistiest boss I ever had in the military enviroment was probably 5' 5". Some short people assert themselves in more exagerrated ways, as a learned method to gain more attention. However not many would be effective in an actual corporate environment, where a standard level of professionalism is required.

The first female Captain of the Military base I worked at, responded with this behavior to lead a testosterone soaked group of 2000 individuals; 20 year marines, found here to be the hardest experience they endured in life. She overdid it as well, and was not considered an effective leader by anyone on the entire base. Literally anyone.

I defintely agree that not all women or men, have any need to wear heels to assert authority in life. Jack Welch one of the most accomplished CEO's in America was Five foot seven inches tall, however he was always in control of his temperment.

Per the article I provided in the post, over-agressiveness doesn't work for women in the corporate environment, subtle displays of power, like high heels are considered appropriate, but you won't see a great deal of leg, in most circumstances. That indeed would be overtly sexual, and not considered professional, by many.

A great deal of it has to do with how one carries themself and dresses. Some sales women are notorius for mixing the heels with the legs, and tight dresses, from the used car dealership to the realty business, but most are in sales, not leadership positions.

I know you are quite familiar with the US, visiting one of the most well heeled cities in America, but if your experience in Canada is different, the competitive nature in the corporate environment for women in Canada may not be quite what it is in the US.

One thing I find ironic is that some of these individuals in the corporate world have IQ's off the chart, however it doesn't mean a thing when it comes to a real statistical analysis of what will likely eventually happen to their feet, as a result of wearing high heels, as a supplement to their perceived level of status and power. Evidence that perceived power and status is a greater intoxicant, than the level of pain that some endure.

I've started wearing a corset recently. Bascially, I put on weight. I used to slim and now I'm chubby. I went up 2 cup sizes. I now have something to push in and something to lift up. When I was skinny and wore A-cups, there was no point and I looked stupid in corsets. I don't find them that uncomfortable, though I only wear them when I don't have manual work or lots of walking to do (so I basically don't wear them during the day time). I'm a fan of corsets on fat women. It's the only type of clothing that look better on big girls, and helps them to keep their curves. When I lose the weight again, though, I don't know if I'll bother to wear one out of the house.

Corsets for me are much less uncomfortable than high heels and they don't stop me doing most things except work or errands. They are suitable clothing for non-active leisure, for me. Stiletto heels stop me from doing pretty much anything except sitting down and moving like a mauled animal if I decide to walk in them. There's something especially disabling about losing normal function in your feet.

I've wondered what would happen if all women went on a hair removal strike. I think men would get over it, eventually, but it would increase the 'market value' of blonde and naturally not very hairy women.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 14 Apr 2012, 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

I stopped at 15, and then got A LOT of s**t off my family, so took it up again. I have to shave, or I eventually look like freak show material. No, I don't have PCOS.

I know you didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway.

Yummy!

It used to be that girls were dissuaded from going far in school (at least among the proletarian classes), because education and smarts were viewed as impediments to finding a husband. That's why my aunts didn't finish high school.

I think that in some parts of Asia these days, educated women are opting to forego marriage.

Yeah, it's mainly my mother who comments that I don't.
She also hates that I don't wear makeup.
She's very...into what women are "supposed" to do.

I've never dated a man who cared about those things- at least one was actually displeased whenever I wore makeup.
But then, I only date feminists.

Infantalization is so cute.