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Feminist preoccupation with power

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ArrantPariah
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14 Apr 2012, 10:51 am

Ragtime wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
No body hair? You mean like a shaven head like the Star Trek Borg Queen ?


Body hair doesn't include head hair.


If that is your photo, then you do have a very cute little beard.



AspieRogue

14 Apr 2012, 10:56 am

Oh women! Ya can't live with em, ya can't live without em............ :lol:



TM
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14 Apr 2012, 10:57 am

androbot2084 wrote:
I know but why would I let something superficial get in the way of a relationship? If the woman who loves me can't men with beards why should I grow a beard? Sometimes I might go a few days without shaving as an act of defiance.


Its one of those things where you do something for the other person. Superficial things matter, yes what's inside matters too but somehow I doubt any of the people championing the "its only the inside that matters" would go on a date with a homeless man who was a beautiful person on the inside. I like tattoos and piercings, but I'm not dating this Woman On the same note, I'm not going to ask a woman out who I know hold values excessively contrary to my own regardless of how good looking she is because I know it won't work out.



AceOfSpades
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14 Apr 2012, 11:15 am

TM wrote:
I stopped showering back in 1998 because I decided that any woman who cared wasn't worth it...
:lol:



ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:30 am

TM wrote:
I stopped showering back in 1998 because I decided that any woman who cared wasn't worth it...


If she thought not showering is only repugnant when it comes to males, and not females,
I think you're better off without such irrational people in your life.


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ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:33 am

TM wrote:
Its one of those things where you do something for the other person. Superficial things matter, yes what's inside matters too but somehow I doubt any of the people championing the "its only the inside that matters" would go on a date with a homeless man who was a beautiful person on the inside.

You're equating disparities in economic status with sex-based aesthetic roles?

If anything that solidifies the point: differences do matter, whether between people of varying means, or people of varying levels of preoccupation with whatever the en-vogue beauty ritual is.


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:36 am

Ragtime wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
No body hair? You mean like a shaven head like the Star Trek Borg Queen ?


Body hair doesn't include head hair.


Right, because the head is not part of the body. :lol:
Except for the right eyebrow. And maybe a couple hairs in the nasal cavity. :lol:
Let's try to be even more random.


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They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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AspieRogue

14 Apr 2012, 11:37 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian:

How do you feel about women who opt for permanent removal of their leg and armpit hair? If I were a woman, you can better believe I'd have saved my money to do it so I wouldn't have to bother shaving regularly.


The interesting bit is that you wouldn't "have to bother" with it anyway, anymore than (I presume) you do now.

The real world isn't relegated to this or that legal milestone- it's dictated by economic, political, and cultural saturation of misogynist ideals, as dictated by the media and driven by capitalist forces.

There are men so disgusted with women having BODY HAIR that they refuse to have sex with them, for christ's sake.
Let's not even get into how such topics as menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and menopause are viewed.


LEGAL milestone you say? This has nothing to do with the law as permanent body hair removal is both legal and entirely voluntary. Body hair is something that both sexes have. The other topics do not apply to men.



TM
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14 Apr 2012, 11:40 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
Its one of those things where you do something for the other person. Superficial things matter, yes what's inside matters too but somehow I doubt any of the people championing the "its only the inside that matters" would go on a date with a homeless man who was a beautiful person on the inside.

You're equating disparities in economic status with sex-based aesthetic roles?

If anything that solidifies the point: differences do matter, whether between people of varying means, or people of varying levels of preoccupation with whatever the en-vogue beauty ritual is.


Yes, because I was the one who brought up aesthetics.....



ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:42 am

AspieRogue wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian:

How do you feel about women who opt for permanent removal of their leg and armpit hair? If I were a woman, you can better believe I'd have saved my money to do it so I wouldn't have to bother shaving regularly.


The interesting bit is that you wouldn't "have to bother" with it anyway, anymore than (I presume) you do now.

The real world isn't relegated to this or that legal milestone- it's dictated by economic, political, and cultural saturation of misogynist ideals, as dictated by the media and driven by capitalist forces.

There are men so disgusted with women having BODY HAIR that they refuse to have sex with them, for christ's sake.
Let's not even get into how such topics as menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and menopause are viewed.


LEGAL milestone you say? This has nothing to do with the law as permanent body hair removal is both legal and entirely voluntary. Body hair is something that both sexes have. The other topics do not apply to men.


My point was that some people, you among them apparently, seem to think equality between the sexes means this or that legal equality, when in reality the world is not a courtroom, nor even the workplace, or the voting booth.

These same people seem to equate "voluntary" with "voluntary (under pain of substantially threatening your reproductive and romantic chances, and possibly your professional ones, as well)".


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:43 am

TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
Its one of those things where you do something for the other person. Superficial things matter, yes what's inside matters too but somehow I doubt any of the people championing the "its only the inside that matters" would go on a date with a homeless man who was a beautiful person on the inside.

You're equating disparities in economic status with sex-based aesthetic roles?

If anything that solidifies the point: differences do matter, whether between people of varying means, or people of varying levels of preoccupation with whatever the en-vogue beauty ritual is.


Yes, because I was the one who brought up aesthetics.....


No, you brought up economic-based dating preferences, when the topic (at the moment) was aesthetic ones.
Pardon my confusion at the analogy.


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


AspieRogue

14 Apr 2012, 11:45 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
hyperlexian:

How do you feel about women who opt for permanent removal of their leg and armpit hair? If I were a woman, you can better believe I'd have saved my money to do it so I wouldn't have to bother shaving regularly.


The interesting bit is that you wouldn't "have to bother" with it anyway, anymore than (I presume) you do now.

The real world isn't relegated to this or that legal milestone- it's dictated by economic, political, and cultural saturation of misogynist ideals, as dictated by the media and driven by capitalist forces.

There are men so disgusted with women having BODY HAIR that they refuse to have sex with them, for christ's sake.
Let's not even get into how such topics as menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and menopause are viewed.


LEGAL milestone you say? This has nothing to do with the law as permanent body hair removal is both legal and entirely voluntary. Body hair is something that both sexes have. The other topics do not apply to men.


My point was that some people, you among them apparently, seem to think equality between the sexes means this or that legal equality, when in reality the world is not a courtroom, nor even the workplace, or the voting booth.




That's correct. I don't care if the real world isn't a courtroom. You want more than just equal rights for men and women, you want them to be socially and even visually indistinguishable. Most of us, regardless of gender, really don't want this at all.



ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:52 am

AspieRogue wrote:
That's correct. I don't care if the real world isn't a courtroom. You want more than just equal rights for men and women, you want them to be socially and even visually indistinguishable. Most of us, regardless of gender, really don't want this at all.

I just don't restrict the notion of "rights" to legal codification of rights.
I "want" individuals to have the right to be individuals, without sex-based expectations or rules forced on them by the larger culture,
nothing more or less.

You're right, though, that it's hard for me to fathom a worldview that involves treating a man or woman as anything other than a person, "socially", or otherwise,
or involves them being required to adopt special dress to identify their sex.

I think it interesting you presume to speak for the majority of humanity, Argumentum ad Populum aside.


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"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 14 Apr 2012, 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

TM
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14 Apr 2012, 11:52 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
Its one of those things where you do something for the other person. Superficial things matter, yes what's inside matters too but somehow I doubt any of the people championing the "its only the inside that matters" would go on a date with a homeless man who was a beautiful person on the inside.

You're equating disparities in economic status with sex-based aesthetic roles?

If anything that solidifies the point: differences do matter, whether between people of varying means, or people of varying levels of preoccupation with whatever the en-vogue beauty ritual is.


Yes, because I was the one who brought up aesthetics.....


No, you brought up economic-based dating preferences, when the topic (at the moment) was aesthetic ones.
Pardon my confusion at the analogy.


I wasn't thinking of homeless in regards to economic status but in regards to hygiene. I do find it funny that you jumped right to economic status, when the more apt interpretation would be a person who is wearing filthy clothes, hasn't showered in weeks or days not seen a dentist in years, I mean since we were speaking of aesthetics.



ValentineWiggin
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14 Apr 2012, 11:59 am

TM wrote:

I wasn't thinking of homeless in regards to economic status but in regards to hygiene.

We were discussing shaving (I believe) when it was brought up, this being a thread about feminism and (at the moment) sex roles, specifically.
How is the removal of body hair an issue of HYGIENE for one sex, but not the other?
Would men be the MORE unhygienic, then, since they have more of it, on average?

TM wrote:
I do find it funny that you jumped right to economic status, when the more apt interpretation would be a person who is wearing filthy clothes, hasn't showered in weeks or days not seen a dentist in years, I mean since we were speaking of aesthetics.

Those things have to do with hygiene, not aesthetics, per se, so I really had no idea what you were talking about, given,
as I said, there's no rational reason as to why women having a smaller amount of body hair is more unhygienic than men having a larger amount.

Could you clarify?


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


TM
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14 Apr 2012, 12:38 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:

I wasn't thinking of homeless in regards to economic status but in regards to hygiene.

We were discussing shaving (I believe) when it was brought up, this being a thread about feminism and (at the moment) sex roles, specifically.
How is the removal of body hair an issue of HYGIENE for one sex, but not the other?
Would men be the MORE unhygienic, then, since they have more of it, on average?

TM wrote:
I do find it funny that you jumped right to economic status, when the more apt interpretation would be a person who is wearing filthy clothes, hasn't showered in weeks or days not seen a dentist in years, I mean since we were speaking of aesthetics.

Those things have to do with hygiene, not aesthetics, per se, so I really had no idea what you were talking about, given,
as I said, there's no rational reason as to why women having a smaller amount of body hair is more unhygienic than men having a larger amount.

Could you clarify?


It's a question of hygiene, because the function of armpit and crotch hair is to act as a sponge for sweat and other things. Not sure if that's what its intended to do or if its just a side effect. Eww disgusting. On that note, I remove most of my body hair regularly and given some of the "reveals" here, I'm guessing I as a man is less hairy than quite a few of the women in here. Body hair in general is disgusting.

The greater point of it all, which went right over your head when you dove into the semantics of the whole thing was that, Hyperlexican's moronic comment that "any man who cares ain't worth my time" was similar to the whole "the outside doesn't matter" thinking, which is BS to begin with. Hence why I brought up the homeless person to illustrate that people say such things but they are platitudes. It's like "the customer is always right" the truth is the customer is generally a moron.