Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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First of all porn is not about celebrating loving relationships but only promotes casual sex.

Ok, fine: casual sex does not have to be degrading to one party or the other.

I never said that porn should degrade women. All I mentioned was that porn only promotes casual sex as if loving relationships were forbidden.

Wikipedia has some very valuable information and can be quite reliable on a number of topics. Individual people about whom there is controversy is its weak spot.

You shouldn't be judging her (or anyone) based on her wikipedia page. If you are going to judge her, it should be based on more than a 'pattern match', which appears to be a code-word for 'knee-jerk reaction'.


Saying that she 'sounds like your typical Fox News conspiracy theorist idiot' is mostly just a string of unsubstantiated adjectives, and the actual substance of it is that you don't like what you think she sounds like. Calling her an idiot because she wrote a book with a title you dislike is similarly unpersuasive. You don't refute the 'biology' argument, you just call it 'BS'. If she made the 'biology' argument and that argument is wrong, then that makes her wrong about that particular thing, not "at least sexist".

Jono's original challenge was to provide an explanation, not a bunch of adjectives and assumptions.

That's partly why I prefer women sexually.

Some films are degrading, other's are not. Can this influence the image men have of women in a negative way? Certainly, but not more than "Sex and the City", "Desperate Housewives" and "Gilmore Girls". Are you somehow forgetting that large parts of "Housewife porn" IE "romantic" "novels" are centered around dominance and submission?

A study performed among undergraduates at the University of North Texas found that "This study evaluated the rape fantasies of female undergraduates (N = 355) using a fantasy checklist that reflected the legal definition of rape and a sexual fantasy log that included systematic prompts and self-ratings. Results indicated that 62% of women have had a rape fantasy, which is somewhat higher than previous estimates. For women who have had rape fantasies, the median frequency of these fantasies was about 4 times per year, with 14% of participants reporting that they had rape fantasies at least once a week. In contrast to previous research, which suggested that rape fantasies were either entirely aversive or entirely erotic, rape fantasies were found to exist on an erotic-aversive continuum, with 9% completely aversive, 45% completely erotic, and 46% both erotic and aversive." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19085605

This article from Psychology today has more statistics and good information about the topic http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all ... -they-mean

I can't really speculate as to why men get off on this, I can't really speculate about why many women are obsessed with romantic comedies, throw-pillows or shoes either. One thing I really can't begin to speculate about are the 45% of women who get off on this as well. I mean romance fiction is a $1.27 billion dollar industry, porn is a 2.6 billion dollar industry. I'm sure a lot more women buy porn than men buy romance novels.

As to the commercials, movies and weekly TV-shows that show men as immature morons are concerned, they

A: Have a much wider audience, over 10 million people watched "Everyone Loves Raymond" a show that had a premise that can be condensed into "Idiot husband gets berated, beaten and emasculated continuously by his competent, overworked and constantly being bullied by her mean mother in law, wife.

B: A considerable amount of the audience are impressionable children.

C: Have been broadcasting this on national TV for the last 40 years.

Porn is about making money

^
Romance novels, porn and crappy sitcoms are all part of the same old gender role-reinforcing rubbish.

I am ok with Feminism as long as it doesn't go to the extreme where they will say and put up signs saying men are useless etc. No gender is superior over the other and no gender is useless. Once I came across a femenist extremist telling me that men are worthless etc and women can rule the world without men. I applied my logic to her remarks and said "without men you wouldn't be here, because you need the other 23 chromosomes to create you and I know it goes the other way around as well." Sure you could clone but it wouldn't be natures way cloning doesn't allow the human race to evolve as efficiently or replicate the human race fast enough if a natural disaster like a meteor was to hit the earth the human species would probably go extinct. No one gender that requires the means of sexual reproduction can live on without the other for it would mean extinction. Women are not sex objects or weak neither are all men stupid, useless, lummoxes who degrade women. There are good and bad in either gender therefore we should just get along and not hate or degrade each other.

feminism does not support your views. feminism is ONLY for WOMEN and is against men.

Well, it might be damaging on a subtle level, but if it's a subtle enough level, it really isn't that terrible. Sure, some comedies portray all men as moronic overgrown 13 year olds. But that doesn't mean that society in general thinks of men as moronic overgrown 13 year olds from a comedy.

I think overt assertions that men are all idiots or women are all sex toys are objectionable, but I don't think that bad porn or stupid comedies rise to that level.


I've seen the idea that porn is violent before, and I've seen a lot of porn, and I don't think the idea that porn is violent can be supported. And, really, that something is a fantasy makes a huge difference. Just because you have a fantasy about something doesn't mean you actually want it to happen in reality. There are a fair number of women with rape fantasies, but that doesn't mean they want to actually be raped.


I think there is too much degradation in porn (in case that wasn't clear before), but I don't think you can measure the size of the population that is into degradation by looking at how much there is in porn. It can be hard to find stuff that is non-degrading, but that doesn't mean that people are going to stop watching porn over that, even if they really would prefer gentler, more romantic stuff.

Even if you could measure the size of the population that is into degrading stuff, all you're measuring is their fantasies, not whether or not they respect women. I just don't think you can get a strong enough signal from porn to judge society by.


You're ignoring amateur porn here, which is frequently about real couples and sells pretty well despite having worse production value and less good-looking people in it (on average). You're also assuming that the women involved aren't getting off on it, which is not always true.


I don't think it's impossible, or even that hard, to get off on being degraded. I don't think it implies anything bad about a person that they can get off on that sort of thing, with their self-esteem or anything else.

Amateur porn is where it is at IMO.

Straight porn is an excellent advertisement for lesbianism.

QFT. Look at the whole 'Twilight' saga, for example: the hero is a stalker, and the heroine exists mainly to be repeatedly rescued.
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Porn makers produce what sells the most, for the most money. If more men wanted happy couple sex with beautiful production values, then more producers would make that. As for what proportion of porn is actually violent, vs. degrading, I don't know, nor do I care to find out personally; however, I do know that violent porn *exists,* and is sold in mainstream sex shops.

Professional-made porn is crud for these and more reasons.

Amateur (and I mean truly amateur) on the other hand is much better, and healthier. A lot of things are helped by the fact that it is not money-driven and the people in it are as interested in enjoying as the viewer is. Including that people actually use condoms, goshdarnit.

Not here in Britain it isn't. That stuff is cut from porn that is sold in licensed sex shops here. The same goes for the less mild BDSM-type stuff. Abusive pornography - like the Facial Abuse stuff - would be banned outright if submitted.