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iamnotaparakeet
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21 Dec 2010, 5:16 pm

Orwell wrote:
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I tend to agree with iamnotaparakeet that the system based on expensive credentialism really isn't fair. It may be something that works on the macro-scale in terms of broad statistics, but there are is a significant minority for which the system is slanted against.

Instead we should have a system based on people saying "Oh yeah, I know particle physics, I read a book about it once" to decide who gets to handle the expensive equipment at CERN? Or anyone who borrowed some law books from the library can dispense legal advice? Maybe I'll just read up on human anatomy on Wikipedia and become a physician based on that. Is there an "Open-heart surgery for dummies" book out yet?

There are problems in the current system. But the solution is to try to modify that system to fix its problems (mainly by making it more accessible and affordable), not replace it with something completely useless.


Yes, it should be modified. Universities should be non-profit and there ought to be examinations to test knowledge acquirement and comprehension able to be signed up for and taken once the students are through studying the material to their satisfaction that they know and understand it. This is only one possible solution to modify the existing system to shift the focus from churning out busywork to seeking to obtain knowledge and understanding, so when you poke holes in it - which I'm sure you will - just think of all of the other possible other alterations and solutions able to be generated in order to shift colleges from using students merely as cash cows into actually being their for the purpose of providing education.



ruveyn
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21 Dec 2010, 5:26 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Yes, it should be modified. Universities should be non-profit and there ought to be examinations to test knowledge acquirement and comprehension able to be signed up for and taken once the students are through studying the material to their satisfaction that they know and understand it. This is only one possible solution to modify the existing system to shift the focus from churning out busywork to seeking to obtain knowledge and understanding, so when you poke holes in it - which I'm sure you will - just think of all of the other possible other alterations and solutions able to be generated in order to shift colleges from using students merely as cash cows into actually being their for the purpose of providing education.


People who have acquired their skills along an alternative pathway (other than a school) should be given the opportunity to establish their expertise by the same exams. However one was trained is irrelevant as long as one acquires the skills.

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iamnotaparakeet
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21 Dec 2010, 6:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Yes, it should be modified. Universities should be non-profit and there ought to be examinations to test knowledge acquirement and comprehension able to be signed up for and taken once the students are through studying the material to their satisfaction that they know and understand it. This is only one possible solution to modify the existing system to shift the focus from churning out busywork to seeking to obtain knowledge and understanding, so when you poke holes in it - which I'm sure you will - just think of all of the other possible other alterations and solutions able to be generated in order to shift colleges from using students merely as cash cows into actually being their for the purpose of providing education.


People who have acquired their skills along an alternative pathway (other than a school) should be given the opportunity to establish their expertise by the same exams. However one was trained is irrelevant as long as one acquires the skills.

ruveyn


That's true enough that it's more or less a state function, however the cost of college nowadays makes it a prohibitively high risk investment. If such exams were available and accessible to those who choose to learn independently of a 4 to 8 year contract to provide revenue to a business, then perhaps the next few years from now there might be less people struggling to pay off debt while being unemployed due to being overqualified.



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21 Dec 2010, 6:57 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Yes, it should be modified. Universities should be non-profit and there ought to be examinations to test knowledge acquirement and comprehension able to be signed up for and taken once the students are through studying the material to their satisfaction that they know and understand it.

I think most universities (or at least almost all of the well-regarded ones) are non-profit. As to exams, many professions (law, medicine, engineering, accounting, etc) have their own exams for licensure to enter the field. Of those, I think law and medicine are the only ones where you are strictly required to obtain a degree as well, although there are very few engineers who lack a university education.*

*For the record, my father is an engineer, and his degree was just in a general science field, not in engineering. But he passed the licensing exams to become an engineer and found a corporation that wanted his talents.


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Philologos
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21 Dec 2010, 7:16 pm

ruveyn -

"
Are you saying schooling and apprentice training is useless? "

You will see from early this thread and comments elsewhere, no. Some is quite effewctive for specific purposes

At the same time, MOST schooling is allee same like the class and driver's handook of driver's ed - without ever getting behind the wheel.

There is very little account taken of very different personalities needs and learning styles.

WP does not have room for all I know and think and think i know about education.

If a team of about 1000 of me or close equivalents redesigned education from the bottom up, it might be more consistently effective.