God is found within beauty or, more importantly, harmony

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Sand
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26 Nov 2010, 11:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Sand wrote:
There are no absolute facts.


Is that a fact?


Perhaps. It is certainly a very fruitful proposal.[/quote

But is it true?

If the statement: "there are no absolute facts" is true, then it contradicts itself. And if it is false then there are facts which are not absolute. Many factual states come about contingently. There are true things which are not necessarily true.

ruveyn


My point is that the extraordinary major discoveries in science come from examining and questioning closely those supposedly firm basics, basics which tradition has considered as unquestionable. When they are shattered broad new horizons open up that. under exploration and exploitation have conferred immense riches on culture and wealth and creativity. This was the fount from which Newton and Einstein drank and this is the nucleus of my basic hatred and disgust of religion which never deeply questions the archaic and imprisoning principles which underlie its beliefs which would consign humanity to ignorance in a dark dungeon cringing before imagined and unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable powers.



Sand
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26 Nov 2010, 11:38 pm

In the NY Times today there is an article at http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010 ... ?hp#foster which displays some of the extraordinary architecture being constructed by extremely creative architects. It is a good example of my contention that the base of realized creativity is simply wealth. Creativity abounds throughout all mankind from all sorts of sources but to put it to work requires something as extraordinarily obvious as wealth. Combined with wealth enduring objects of all sorts come into being. It is unquestionable that one of the sources of huge wealth during the Middle Ages and beyond is the religious organizations which milked the rich and poor alike to assemble vast resources out of the imaginary terrors of the punishments from their imaginary deity. And that's why all that marvelous stuff got done.



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2010, 7:55 am

Sand wrote:

My point is that the extraordinary major discoveries in science come from examining and questioning closely those supposedly firm basics, basics which tradition has considered as unquestionable. When they are shattered broad new horizons open up that. under exploration and exploitation have conferred immense riches on culture and wealth and creativity. This was the fount from which Newton and Einstein drank and this is the nucleus of my basic hatred and disgust of religion which never deeply questions the archaic and imprisoning principles which underlie its beliefs which would consign humanity to ignorance in a dark dungeon cringing before imagined and unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable powers.


Science prospers when there are more questions than answers.

ruveyn



Sand
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27 Nov 2010, 8:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

My point is that the extraordinary major discoveries in science come from examining and questioning closely those supposedly firm basics, basics which tradition has considered as unquestionable. When they are shattered broad new horizons open up that. under exploration and exploitation have conferred immense riches on culture and wealth and creativity. This was the fount from which Newton and Einstein drank and this is the nucleus of my basic hatred and disgust of religion which never deeply questions the archaic and imprisoning principles which underlie its beliefs which would consign humanity to ignorance in a dark dungeon cringing before imagined and unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable powers.


Science prospers when there are more questions than answers.

ruveyn


Probably true to a degree but to leave it at that is not enough.



Philologos
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27 Nov 2010, 9:46 am

"This was the fount from which Newton and Einstein drank and this is the nucleus of my basic hatred and disgust of religion which never deeply questions the archaic and imprisoning principles which underlie its beliefs which would consign humanity to ignorance in a dark dungeon cringing before imagined and unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable powers."

I guess you never met either an ennea-5 theologian OR an ennea-1 paleontologist [the latter my dear but not loving brother]. It is not the religion nor the paleontology nor any other field, mon ami, it is the attitude of the proprietor whose sees it as his castle. Save hatred and disgust for the ideologues and demagogues, and stop watching the doughnut hole of the particular manger they are occupying.



Sand
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27 Nov 2010, 10:36 am

Philologos wrote:
"This was the fount from which Newton and Einstein drank and this is the nucleus of my basic hatred and disgust of religion which never deeply questions the archaic and imprisoning principles which underlie its beliefs which would consign humanity to ignorance in a dark dungeon cringing before imagined and unsubstantiated and unsubstantiatable powers."

I guess you never met either an ennea-5 theologian OR an ennea-1 paleontologist [the latter my dear but not loving brother]. It is not the religion nor the paleontology nor any other field, mon ami, it is the attitude of the proprietor whose sees it as his castle. Save hatred and disgust for the ideologues and demagogues, and stop watching the doughnut hole of the particular manger they are occupying.


What's an ennea?



ruveyn
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27 Nov 2010, 11:01 am

Sand wrote:

What's an ennea?


Greek for "nine".

ruveyn



Sand
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27 Nov 2010, 11:06 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

What's an ennea?


Greek for "nine".

ruveyn


It still doesn't make sense.



Philologos
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27 Nov 2010, 11:17 am

Check out Enneagram-based personality classing. By preference Riso school or Palmer school.

Origins frankly perturbing, some of the variants in play seriously bad-headed. Has proven pretty robust predicting / explaining interactions with others [including my brother].

My enneagram-based hunch is you won't like it. But hey, you can always use awareness of a new idiocy, am I right, or are you left? Behind, that is, sufficient unto the day is the political situation thereof.



Banned_Magnus
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30 Nov 2010, 3:03 am

JNathanK wrote:
I've heard beauty is within the eye of the beholder, but if something harmonizes with their frequency, that's where beauty is found. What harmonizes with one person's frequency might not harmonize with another, but its still a harmony. It isn't any kind of dissonance when something clicks with someone, even if what is clicking with them might be a disharmony to someone else. If we can all find a common harmonization (universal love for our fellow man and the universe). I think that's where our greatest potential lay at.


I agree. I think beauty is harmony and has a divine sort of quality to it. The balance between good and evil, or like opposites at peace with one another, understanding each other, that seems divine and beautiful. Say when two opposing soldiers look at one another and see the humanity in each other's eyes. That sort of reflection resembles God or light or however that divine quality can be described. Aesthetics in philosophy is divine in a way. It reaches up and up until the two debaters understand one another and learn or grow by putting away preconceived notions and irrational emotions.



Sand
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30 Nov 2010, 4:25 am

Banned_Magnus wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
I've heard beauty is within the eye of the beholder, but if something harmonizes with their frequency, that's where beauty is found. What harmonizes with one person's frequency might not harmonize with another, but its still a harmony. It isn't any kind of dissonance when something clicks with someone, even if what is clicking with them might be a disharmony to someone else. If we can all find a common harmonization (universal love for our fellow man and the universe). I think that's where our greatest potential lay at.


I agree. I think beauty is harmony and has a divine sort of quality to it. The balance between good and evil, or like opposites at peace with one another, understanding each other, that seems divine and beautiful. Say when two opposing soldiers look at one another and see the humanity in each other's eyes. That sort of reflection resembles God or light or however that divine quality can be described. Aesthetics in philosophy is divine in a way. It reaches up and up until the two debaters understand one another and learn or grow by putting away preconceived notions and irrational emotions.


And when a beautiful girl is raped there is terrible evil performed on the girl and the rapist has a hell of a good time. That's the good and it neatly balances.



ruveyn
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30 Nov 2010, 7:54 am

Sand wrote:

And when a beautiful girl is raped there is terrible evil performed on the girl and the rapist has a hell of a good time. That's the good and it neatly balances.


Fecum est. It has always been thus.

ruveyn



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30 Nov 2010, 8:08 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

And when a beautiful girl is raped there is terrible evil performed on the girl and the rapist has a hell of a good time. That's the good and it neatly balances.


Fecum est. It has always been thus.

ruveyn


Your logic makes me physically ill.


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AngelRho
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30 Nov 2010, 9:59 am

91 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

And when a beautiful girl is raped there is terrible evil performed on the girl and the rapist has a hell of a good time. That's the good and it neatly balances.


Fecum est. It has always been thus.

ruveyn


Your logic makes me physically ill.


The point being that what might seem good to one person can be evil to another. It is a sad state of affairs, but it is reality.



Philologos
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30 Nov 2010, 10:03 am

So therefore, no point complaining about pedophilia either because good and evil are zero sum. What about a lone hijacker crashing a 747 into the Rose Bowl? Do the numbers experiencing positive and negative affect the alance of the equation?

More seriously - are we clear that rapists have a good time?

I have no way to judge directly, but I know that times I did clear evil [I am talking about my atheist days here, so we can leave religious memes out of it] I was NOT having a good time.



Sand
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30 Nov 2010, 10:16 am

It's just that the world doesn't parse with simpleminded unthought out naive concepts of good and evil. An emotional emetic is frequently the proper medicine to crack through the fixated corroded misconceptions promulgated by the primitive social minds entranced by much conventional social doctrine. Right now in the USA the rich are getting richer at the expense of the poor. Good or evil? Depends upon whether you're rich or poor. When I go to the dentist to get root canal work is the experience good or evil? Depends upon whether you're the dentist or the patient and whether he has an anesthetic.

I can complain about the rape because I sympathize with the girl. Don't tell me there are no idiots who sympathize with the rapist.