WikiLeaks Revelation: The U.S. Tortured an Innocent Man and

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Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 4:22 pm

Orwell wrote:
You guys do know that Fidel Castro is no longer in control, right? His little brother Raul is running the country now, and he is starting it on the right path to market reforms. They still have a long way to go, of course, but they are moving in the right direction. It is time to soften our policy towards Cuba and help them rejoin the world community.


Maybe, maybe not. It all depends, and yes I know his little brother is supposedly in control now. Not sure if the image is reality as of yet.



Orwell
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06 Dec 2010, 4:25 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You guys do know that Fidel Castro is no longer in control, right? His little brother Raul is running the country now, and he is starting it on the right path to market reforms. They still have a long way to go, of course, but they are moving in the right direction. It is time to soften our policy towards Cuba and help them rejoin the world community.


Maybe, maybe not. It all depends, and yes I know his little brother is supposedly in control now. Not sure if the image is reality as of yet.

Last I heard, Fidel was basically on his deathbed. He's not still governing, we know that much. Whether Raul or some party insiders are actually in control is uncertain, but the important thing is: reform is coming to Cuba. It is coming slowly, but it is still coming. An end to the trade embargo would open up trade and encourage more reforms. The sooner we end the embargo, the sooner Cubans can have a chance at freedom.


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Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 4:30 pm

@ Orwell

I actually hope you are right.



skafather84
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06 Dec 2010, 5:05 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You guys do know that Fidel Castro is no longer in control, right? His little brother Raul is running the country now, and he is starting it on the right path to market reforms. They still have a long way to go, of course, but they are moving in the right direction. It is time to soften our policy towards Cuba and help them rejoin the world community.


Maybe, maybe not. It all depends, and yes I know his little brother is supposedly in control now. Not sure if the image is reality as of yet.


Even when he had been "in control" the last year or so, Fidel had given control over to his brother and was doing little more than writing op-ed pieces most of the time and the occasional public appearance for the sake of publicity.


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Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 7:06 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Orwell wrote:
You guys do know that Fidel Castro is no longer in control, right? His little brother Raul is running the country now, and he is starting it on the right path to market reforms. They still have a long way to go, of course, but they are moving in the right direction. It is time to soften our policy towards Cuba and help them rejoin the world community.


Maybe, maybe not. It all depends, and yes I know his little brother is supposedly in control now. Not sure if the image is reality as of yet.


Even when he had been "in control" the last year or so, Fidel had given control over to his brother and was doing little more than writing op-ed pieces most of the time and the occasional public appearance for the sake of publicity.


Again the jury is out concerning Fidel's brother.



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06 Dec 2010, 7:12 pm

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Do the Cuban people all own guns? It's kinda hard when you have a regime willing to execute dissidents and you have no way to fight back.
Typical US mindset. Everybody owning guns is supposedly necessary and sufficient to stop a regime. That's not true in the real life. Revolutions happen in places where most people don't have any guns. And some places in which the population is full of guns don't see any revolution whatsoever against their regimes for some reason.

There is a military, and that's about tons of guns that would turn against a government if the dissent was of the majority. Because opportunists are everywhere, and if a general thought he would be able to become president thanks to the hatred people have against Fidel, he would have done it. It is incredibly hard for me to believe that such thing did not happen in the last 50 years, unless most Cubans actually do want Fidel or his brother in charge. I mean, get real... 50 years.

Thing is that hated oppressive regimes everywhere wouldn't last 50 years, with or without guns. For some reason, not all of the Cubans want "freedom" or at least not all at once. Men that are able to escape an island through the see and avoid all sort of security are able to overthrow a government in less than 50 years, provided they are enough.

I don't know why this happens. Maybe the Cubans are crazy, or maybe they have no idea what freedom and commerce are thanks to the embargo... That's the most logical thing. US was Fidel's greatest ally. By isolating the island from the rest of the world, they allowed Fidel to build his utopia. Lack of US business relationships with Cuba means a lack of progressive people becoming in touch with Cubans and giving them a chance to overcome their mental locks.

If the whole Island of Cuba was desperate to get out of the regime, they would have at least took the opportunity of Fidel's weak period these last years and already freed the island. One more thing not happening.


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Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 7:27 pm

He has been in control for 50 years, how about you look at North Korea's regime. They've been able to maintain control through shear brutality.

I will say Castro is nowhere near as bad as the nuts in North Korea, but fact is he managed to maintain control due to the public's lack of education, then using the education system to indoctrinate the young.



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07 Dec 2010, 3:03 am

ikorack wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.



They're coming over because the country is being starved to death due to our trade embargo and other activities that undermine their income potential. Most people who come here send money back to Cuba and it's their largest income. If trade was normalized with Cuba, there probably wouldn't be such a necessary influx of people trying to come here.


The embargo is justified Cuba stole American resources(and then refused to discuss compensation), the consequences are theirs to deal with. Even then we still do some minor exportation(food and other essentials) with them.


America steals resources and exploits weaker nations constantly, but the strong make the rules. The Cuban people are not all responsible for the actions of the political entity "Cuba"



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07 Dec 2010, 11:30 am

What's really sad is that the majority of Americans refuse to believe that the government is capable of torturing and exploiting innocent people. Even when they're given solid proof they just blame it on lies created by the evil red commies who are plotting to destroy their "great freedom", or they say the government was justified in doing it because they're protecting democracy from the evil countries around the world that deserve to be blown to bits by atomic bombs like Japan during WW2 (I've actually read messages from other people who say the best solution for the War on Terror is to just drop atomic bombs on the entire Middle east).

But you know eventually the other countries of the world are going to get fed up with the way the US bullies weaker countries and then we're going to end up in another World War, only this time the US will be considered the bad guys the way Nazi Germany and the Japanese Imperialists were. We think we're all big and bad and untouchable now, but the fact of life is that no powerful empire lasts forever. Just look at Rome and Egypt! Maybe when our country does fall from power then our people will start learning humility.

Anyways I just don't trust the US government anymore, or any government for that matter. I think they're all full of crap and don't really care about their people as long as they get what they and the other eilitists want.



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07 Dec 2010, 1:05 pm

Subotai wrote:
ikorack wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.



They're coming over because the country is being starved to death due to our trade embargo and other activities that undermine their income potential. Most people who come here send money back to Cuba and it's their largest income. If trade was normalized with Cuba, there probably wouldn't be such a necessary influx of people trying to come here.


The embargo is justified Cuba stole American resources(and then refused to discuss compensation), the consequences are theirs to deal with. Even then we still do some minor exportation(food and other essentials) with them.


America steals resources and exploits weaker nations constantly, but the strong make the rules. The Cuban people are not all responsible for the actions of the political entity "Cuba"


Could you be more specific, perhaps with links? As for the last I hardly see how we can let their government get away with stealing from us just because of that, its not a punishment for the Cuban people (even though they are ultimately responsible for their own government) its a sanction against their government for stealing from Americans on a massive scale.



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07 Dec 2010, 1:10 pm

ikorack wrote:
Subotai wrote:
ikorack wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.



They're coming over because the country is being starved to death due to our trade embargo and other activities that undermine their income potential. Most people who come here send money back to Cuba and it's their largest income. If trade was normalized with Cuba, there probably wouldn't be such a necessary influx of people trying to come here.


The embargo is justified Cuba stole American resources(and then refused to discuss compensation), the consequences are theirs to deal with. Even then we still do some minor exportation(food and other essentials) with them.


America steals resources and exploits weaker nations constantly, but the strong make the rules. The Cuban people are not all responsible for the actions of the political entity "Cuba"


Could you be more specific, perhaps with links? As for the last I hardly see how we can let their government get away with stealing from us just because of that, its not a punishment for the Cuban people (even though they are ultimately responsible for their own government) its a sanction against their government for stealing from Americans on a massive scale.


Shouldn't India and China be sueing the UK then? Or China sueing Japan? Seriously, people need to get over what happened 80-100 years ago, do governments make mistakes and do things they shouldn't, yes. That doesn't make a country inheritly evil. There are quite a few things that were disturbing that is going on, some of the stuff immediately after 9/11 are understandible. The US was on the equivalent of Red Alert, some mistakes were made in the process, fine we can either just keep beating ourselves over the head, or we can learn from it. However, to claim we are on the same level as Imperial Japan, and Nazi Germany is really beyond the pale.



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07 Dec 2010, 2:34 pm

The actions after 9/11 where not understandable. The government has been noted as having the information to both stop the attack and the unwillingness to do so. As well the information that prompted are invasion was known as questionable.