The end of Obamacare?
You are, once again, making gross assumptions. Please go back to pages 2-3 and read the exchange between AceofSpades and myself. I don't feel like repeating it. Insurance companies competing across state lines could be accomplished with or without a public option; those are really two separate issues.
No, I am not. Some amount of tort reform was included in the PPACA (there are two provisions relating to it). While the tort reform is relatively minor in scope, certainly less extensive than the GOP wanted, it is in there. See sections 6801 and 10607 of the PPACA if you don't believe me.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
For once, I agree with you.
So, what's the constitutional alternative? How does government ensure that every person has access to affordable, medically necessary care?
single payer?
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Waltur the Walrus Slayer,
Militant Asantist.
"BLASPHEMER!! !! !! !!" (according to AngelRho)
1. Competition across state lines.
2. Tort Reform
3. Some sort of legislation that insurance companies cannot deny someone coverage because of pre-existing condition. Couple that with something where if the person was uninsured when diagnosed with said condition they not the insurance company are required to pay for x years concerning said condition. If however it is someone that got removed from parents insurance and they have pre-existing condition have the old insurance company have to reimberse the new insurance company for x years on medical costs pertaining to said condition (assuming parents are on the same insurance coverage when child was kicked off).
That would in theory be more likely to pass Constitutional Muster than an individual mandate. You can choose not to get insurance, but if you end up with a condition and then get insurance you can't force the insurance company to foot the bill first thing.
Doesn't this run contrary to the objective of universal, affordable, medically necessary coverage?
The legislated prohibition regarding pre-existing conditions seems at odds with the waiting period for freeloaders. All a freeloader needs to do is stay away from the doctor until he is symptomatic, insure himself, sit out the waiting period, and then present himself for diagnosis. The insurer is left holding the bag, without the benefit of premium revenue during the person's healthy years. Further, the freeloaders will tend to require greater levels of care because their conditions will have advanced.
The best medical care is preventative care, and that is precisely what is disincentivized for the the freeloader in this case.
The only way insurance is affordable is if the insured pool is large enough and the risk is controlled.
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--James
Interestingly, the Democrats might push to abolish Obamacare rather than risk the Supreme Court establish a limit on how far the Commerce Clause allows government to reach.
Posted by Michael LeCornec on February 1, 2011
Here are the reasons why Sir Harry Reid is bringing the House version of the HealthCare Repeal Bill to the Senate floor for a vote this Wednesday, February 2, 2011. No, not because he's hoping for his own private groundhog day (though he might be.) There will be a vote on Wednesday due primarily to the ruling in Florida by federal judge Roger Vinson who states, "Because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire act must be declared void." Though the Obama Administration is appealing the decision, I, George Will and many others believe the Supreme Court will uphold the unconstitutionality of ObamaCare and also hold the law null and void in its entirety. In addition, a Supreme Court decision on ObamaCare will have an impact well beyond ObamaCare. It will bring into question many other federal laws over the last 100 years that have overreached its enumerated powers limitation as written in the United States Constitution. With the odds stacking against the Obama administration's belief that the law is fine as written, a loss at the Supreme Court level opens up Pandora's box in that it may now challenge the Constitutionality of hundreds of federal laws as unconstitutional. This has the potential to set back the Statist-Progressive agenda 100 years or more. I so like our chances at the Supreme Court level that I'd like for Congress not to send a repeal bill to Obama. That's why Sir Harry is doing what he is now. Having this go to the SCOTUS is a risk the Statist Progressive's are not willing to take.
When Congress sends this Bill to Obama, will he veto it? The knee-jerk reaction is to say yes, but that's a knee-jerk reaction and not a conclusion based upon a reasoned analysis. Around 70% of the people never wanted this law. Though the numbers have declined slightly, that is because those opposed to the law have been relatively silent in combating the hype from the left as to why this law is so wonderful that you'd be shocked on how you survived without it. You've been hearing from the corrupt Unions and large self-centered providers who have been granted exemptions from the draconian provisions of the law. You are not hearing about the several hundred departments and agencies created by this law that fundamentally change America into a totalitarian transnational state. Health Care has always been the Golden Crown of Socialism and big government power and control over the masses. Almost any human behavior can be seen to have a health care component associated with it, which in turn subjects the citizens as subservient to the force and power of the federal government. Some behaviors, sports, business pursuits and the like may be deemed “risky” which could cause physical or emotional harm and therefore prohibited. What you eat has health implications so the government will now control food production, consumption and distribution via the FDA and other agencies to come; What you see and hear has an impact upon your mental health which will lead to the loss of freedom of speech (talk-radio, TV, press, internet). We saw this happening already as the left is striving to silence its opposition with the vile and hysterical government attacks on Conservatives like Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Fox News and many others as complicit parties and accomplices to the slaughter by a deranged gunman in Arizona.
If Obama veto's ObamaCare, he seals his fate for the 2012 elections … and make no mistake about it, he is running for re-election in 2012 and a clear majority of the nation remains opposed to ObamaCare. A veto has his signature on it alone. No one else can be blamed for this transformational law but Obama. He can kiss his re-election bid goodbye. A veto of the repeal will make certain that the appeals will certainly be heard by the Supreme Court which is very likely to uphold the Florida decision and empower more constitutional challenges to existing federal law that violates the enumerated powers of the Constitution. The left will crucify Obama if he sets their agenda back 100 years just when they were taking their victory laps for a coup d'etat well done. He'd be likely to face a Primary challenge before he gets the Presidential nomination again. Oh yeah, Hillary is in the wings smacking her lips with that prospect. Don't tell me you believed her when she said she was through with any elected position in government. What the heck do you think Bill is doing in the limelight, beside basking in it?
So, will he or will he not veto the repeal bill? I'd say there is good chance for Obama to sign the Repeal Bill rather than face a Supreme Court decision that may have repercussions and shock-waves all the back to 1868. Let's not forget that Obama and 32 Senators are seeking re-election in 2012. If Obama veto's there's a good chance that Congress might repeal the veto. There is just too much at risk. Since the Florida ruling, nobody on the left wants this going to the Supreme Court. Better to take your thumping in one battle and live to fight another day than to set you loss back a full Century or more. Politicians are high-rollers with your money but not with their own re-election bids.
You're mental if you take that guy seriously.
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AngelRho
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You're mental if you take that guy seriously.
I'm not so sure, though. I mean, yeah, he might be a little nuts, but you have to admit there are a few nuggets of truth in there. The next round of elections will be quite revealing. Do senate politicians really value the health care issues ideologically over their own careers? Or are they interested in staying in power, for better or for worse? They stirred up a hornets nest and might have second thoughts come election time, especially given what happened in the house elections.
Harry Reid doesn't seem to be backing down any time soon, though. If the Senate doesn't repeal the law, they potentially have a lot to lose. If Obama vetoes it, he risks being a 1-termer. If congress fails to repeal it and it survives in the courts, you still have over half the states that will still fight it. It's like the slavery issue again, only in reverse.
Yea, I can't see Obama signing the repeal. Too much ego, too much ambition.
While I can see the SCOTUS ruling the individual mandate unconstitutional with 5-4 vote but I don't think they'll rule it entirely constitutional like they should thus giving the false impression the the government has any place in healthcare. Them holding up the individual mandate would have scary implications as well too, so it's not without risk. We'd be essentially a fascist country. It underlines the importance of judges in the next election.
The real fight will be in the states however with nullification and eventual succession. This country is doomed for collapse.
You're mental if you take that guy seriously.
All thoughts are worth considering.
Admittedly, I hope he's wrong. I believe the Supreme Court will hold the law as unconstitutional, and we need limits slapped on the use of the Commerce Clause before we have no freedoms left. If those in power fear the court setting limits, repealing the law makes the case moot and takes it off the court's radar. This allows them to continue abusing government power with an eye to be more careful in how blatantly they act.
You're mental if you take that guy seriously.
All thoughts are worth considering.
That is compltely false, and you don't live in this reality if you actually believe that. Plenty of thoughts are crazy, stupid, or just plain wrong. There is no reasonably expected benefit from considering them.
So many absurd assumptions went into this sentence that I don't even know where to start.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
While I can see the SCOTUS ruling the individual mandate unconstitutional with 5-4 vote but I don't think they'll rule it entirely constitutional like they should thus giving the false impression the the government has any place in healthcare. Them holding up the individual mandate would have scary implications as well too, so it's not without risk. We'd be essentially a fascist country. It underlines the importance of judges in the next election.
Under stare decisis they will have to void the entire law because it lacks a severability clause. I am sure the conservative members of the Court would just love to it on general principles.
ruveyn
You're mental if you take that guy seriously.
All thoughts are worth considering.
That is compltely false, and you don't live in this reality if you actually believe that. Plenty of thoughts are crazy, stupid, or just plain wrong. There is no reasonably expected benefit from considering them.
Actually, the article sounds rather realistic, the Democrat Party is not for the people, it is out for controling people.
So many absurd assumptions went into this sentence that I don't even know where to start.
It's no more crazy that liberal journalists coordinating attacks on Conservative Candidates to try to ensure Democrats get elected, and that conspiracy is conspiracy fact. There are a number of things that would be considered crazy to believe plausible a few years ago that have been proven to have been going on.
Off the top of my head there is:
1. Journ'O'list
2. Climategate -- some scientists may be facing prosecution for felonies involving their behavior.
Try.
The best way to keep a court from having its say is to make the matter moot. Democrats have enough power that if they wanted Obamacare gone lest they risk the Supreme Court ruling against it, they could rally the numbers to repeal it very quickly.
The Saul Alinski tactis don't work anymore, conservatives and independents see it for what it is. The American people have had it with the arrogance of liberal Democrats, as long as Republicans don't royally screw up (and it doesn't look like they are going to at the moment), I don't think the Democrats will have a majority in the House of Representatives for the next couple of decades. You tick someone off enough and they aren't just going to forgive and forget.
