Is Islamophobia any more justified than anti-Semitism?

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Justifiable is the wrong word. Understandable is what you're looking for; and yes, it is.

Against unwelcome British occupiers. It was a war, if you recall. In wars, operatives and soldiers attack their enemies.

Did the Irgun to into Britain proper and blow things up? Like the IRA has sometimes done. As soon as the Brits went away the anti-British violence ceased.

ruveyn

And as the RIRA has threatened to do.

No, I'm not keen on the EU. It's more because their other policies are not very well-defined and are generally tilted in a rightish direction...and because a good number of them are annoying. I would add that their MEPs get done for fraud, but as a Labour voter, I don't have a leg to stand on wrt fraud.

I bet you'd have no qualms about islamofacism as a word.

Zionist doesn't mean Jew, if you didn't notice.

I would agree with you on that one. It did rather shock me when my local candidate stood up for Fairtrade! (The party policy is for free trade.)



Take it you're not a massive fan of Godfrey Bloom then? I like him but then I would.



That'th a bith of a bombthell ithn't it? You vote for him?



No, I suppose not. Having said that though UKIP ejected him when they found out he had done wrong. There is a lot less to condemn UKIP for than there is the other parties.

I never use it. I find Islamism works perfectly well.



Oh, I did. I was just parodying the Jew-haters of this world.

Muslims who look down on anyone and use Islam as an excuse aren't any less responsible for their actions than you are for your reaction. To condemn a religion because of how some of the members act seems a bit extreme.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't deal with my own preconceived notions about a lot of people. Maybe I'm wrong in my conclusions that took me away from that but I've seen some really bad things come out of fear. I'm in the U.S. so maybe it's totally different, my mother's Mosque was set on fire and burned down right after 9/11. She won't even kill a house spider, and she's the most humble person I know. She learned humility and compassion from Islam, she learned to protect and care for those around her to the best of her ability in order to truly practice Islam... yet she has to worry everyday, is it going to be the day someone acts on one of the many death threats she's received? It's not like she and my stepdad are the only Muslims in their neighborhood, they're just the nicest and it's perceived as weakness by people who feel they are acting defensively against Islam as a whole.

It's not Muslims or Christians or Jews, it's people. Some people are going to treat others well no matter what and some people are going to inflict pain on whoever they encounter, it doesn't matter what dogma they claim to follow, they choose their actions, claiming a religion doesn't explain away their behavior, People may or may not decide to be a part of a religion, and they may or may not decide to use it in a positive way, but it's all a choice. Don't get me wrong, I believe you are right to feel fear when people act in a way that feels threatening to you, it's instinctive, self-preservation.

I just hope someday you meet good people who are Muslims who show you that they aren't defined by the actions of a few, they're defined by their own choices and actions.

I'm sorry that your mom and her congregation had to suffer at the hands of hate filled cretins.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This is a very cute and edited version of history.

Problem one.



The British Mandate for Palestine was fully recognised and ratified by international law. Here we go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Ma ... _Palestine

Problem two.


Israel did not exist at the time, if you are not a nation state you can't technically declare war on anyone. If you have a mass of people (many who were illegal immigrants from Europe) who decide to start committing acts of violence and terrorism, you are a terrorist organisation/guerilla army/freedom fighters depending on your view point. You are not a legitimate nation state with the power to declare war.

Problem three.

Yes they did.

They assassinated Lord Moyne in Cairo, bombed the British embassy in Rome and sent lots of letter bombs to people in London. Did you forget about these?

Leaving the Zionist terrorism alone for a sec, you have also ignored the fact that during the 1870's, 1880's, 1890's, 1900's, 1910's and 1920's Jewish anarchists were carrying out acts of terrorism in Britain.


Problem four.


And a campaign of what can only be described as ethnic cleansing against muslims started instead. I assume that doesn't count either because the muslim families that had lived on the land for centuries were also 'unwelcome occupiers' to the illegal jewish immigrants and deserved to die?

I don't mean to sound like some rabid Jew hater here Ruveyn (I'm not) but you are painting a seriously warped picture of history.

Marcus I like the way you talk. I'm going to try to emulate you.

Last edited by rombomb2 on 15 Dec 2011, 3:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

I'm an exmuslim. The Quran is not very confusing. It is fairly straightforward. The good muslims that are telling you that it is ambiguous are not lying by the way. They actually believe what they are saying. The vast majority of them have not read the Quran and only know what their parents told them. And this is cultural knowledge, i.e. it is passed down generation to generation with practically zero fact checking.

--Some of them are not fluent in Arabic, so they only read the English, which has been translated by good people who made it less hateful and more ambiguous. Also all of the English translations were translated by people whose first language was not English nor Arabic. They are Pakistani. So the level of mistranslation is astounding.

--Some of them are fluent in Arabic but they still choose not to read because it is Old Arabic which is like us reading Shakespeare, it takes a lot of effort and few put in the effort.

--Those that do put in the effort, still might have another problem. Its called Cognitive Dissonance. This is a conflict in the mind which causes them to believe that their holy book is not full of hatred, racism, sexism, etc. Their unconscious is inadvertently sabotaging them by attempting to relieve the dissonance by denying the obvious facts. The unconscious does this in order to relieve the feeling of dissonance.

Do you want to know why its hard for Muslims to realize the truth? I wrote my apostasy article explaining just this:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt183114.html

Do you want to know how to deal with a muslim? Check out how I did it.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt183305.html

Last edited by rombomb2 on 15 Dec 2011, 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think that masks are a safety issue. And safety issues are a civil matter. Therefore masks can not be allowed.

Furthermore, nonmuslims should just make a simple argument from Islam against it. What are one of the 'rules' of Islam?

If a muslim lives in a nonmuslim country, that muslim must abide by the civil laws of that country.

Now what muslims will say is: "The Islamic law of the mask overrides the civil law." But they have no basis for this argument, at least not from the Quran or Hadith.

Furthermore, the mask is not even a requirement. Not the Quran, nor the Hadith mention anything about masks. The reason that some muslims wear masks is because of culture. Long after Islam came to be, during the beginning of the Arab cultures' Dark Age, the Turks kepts the Arabs at bay by dumbing them down. How did they do that? They closed schools. They taught that women were not to be educated. What was the result? The Arab culture was infused with new ideas like the mask.

It is so hypocritical, as is the vast majority of religion. The mask wearers say, "I'm doing *more* than what the Quran asks because thats what Allah wants." But the Quran clearly says to follow Mohamed's sayings (Hadith). And Mohamed says that we should not be too extreme in one way or the other. We should be in the middle.

So what is *middle* about covering your face? Its not. It is very extreme. And this goes against Hadith. How fallacious.

Now imagine if these mask wearers were to learn some philosophy. Might they notice the fallacy? Will their Cognitive Dissonance cause them to rationalize it anyway? Probably. But there is a fix. And its very simple. They must also learn about Cognitive Dissonance. If someone learns this, then they will know that their unconscious has this tactic of rationalizing so as to reduce the feeling of dissonance. And in knowing this, the conscious will override the unconscious's behavior with rational thought.

Wanna know more about how philosophy can do this?

Philosophy is NOT a hobby. It is a way of life.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt183360.html

Last edited by rombomb2 on 15 Dec 2011, 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

Well said.

This is how philosophy helps us determine which questions are worthy and which ones are a waste of time.

Philosophy is NOT a hobby. It is a way of life.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt183360.html

Last edited by rombomb2 on 15 Dec 2011, 3:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

Seeing through the fog.

Last edited by rombomb2 on 15 Dec 2011, 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Absolutely does civil law trump religious law. There had been an American woman who had converted to Islam, then wanted to have her face covered when her driver's license photo was taken at the DMV. It was made clear to her that that would be taking religious liberty way too far, and so required to take the burqa off after a court case.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer