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South African Law Graduate Model SHOT DEAD by Paralympian...

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John_Browning
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20 Feb 2013, 2:36 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
But Visa, that wouldn't let the OP try and score cheap political points from a tragedy!


Pot. Kettle. Black.

Let's not forget the very basic fact of this case - smart South African model was shot dead by a firearm.
That cannot be disputed.

She was shot dead by someone that neglected to identify his target before shooting. Getting spooked is a time for extreme caution.


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Dox47
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20 Feb 2013, 3:37 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Pot. Kettle. Black.


Have I posted a series of articles where crimes were prevented using firearms in order to bolster my political position? Got links?

J-Greens wrote:
Let's not forget the very basic fact of this case - smart South African model was shot dead by a firearm.
That cannot be disputed.


Have I, or anyone else, anywhere, ever, disputed that Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead? Are you trying to argue that she's more dead because she was shot rather than stabbed or bludgeoned? Or are you arguing that a gun *made* Oscar Pistorius, a man with a history of DV accusations and erratic behavior, shoot his girlfriend? Is OJ a better person than Oscar because he used a knife rather than a gun?


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Dox47
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20 Feb 2013, 3:40 pm

John_Browning wrote:
She was shot dead by someone that neglected to identify his target before shooting. Getting spooked is a time for extreme caution.


That's the most charitable to Pistorius version, which would at the least make him guilty of negligent homicide, rather than the police version in which he's beating his girlfriend and she locks herself in the bathroom to hide from him. Either way, he's going away for a while.


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visagrunt
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20 Feb 2013, 3:41 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Let's not forget the very basic fact of this case - smart South African model was shot dead by a firearm.
That cannot be disputed.


Which tells us precisely nothing other than the causa causans of her death.


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Jono
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20 Feb 2013, 4:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:
J-Greens wrote:
Let's not forget the very basic fact of this case - smart South African model was shot dead by a firearm.
That cannot be disputed.


Have I, or anyone else, anywhere, ever, disputed that Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead? Are you trying to argue that she's more dead because she was shot rather than stabbed or bludgeoned? Or are you arguing that a gun *made* Oscar Pistorius, a man with a history of DV accusations and erratic behavior, shoot his girlfriend? Is OJ a better person than Oscar because he used a knife rather than a gun?


I've heard there might of been DV allegations with his previous girlfriend but I don't think he was ever charged. Otherwise, he could not of received a license to own a fire arm.



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20 Feb 2013, 4:42 pm

Dox47 wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
She was shot dead by someone that neglected to identify his target before shooting. Getting spooked is a time for extreme caution.


That's the most charitable to Pistorius version, which would at the least make him guilty of negligent homicide, rather than the police version in which he's beating his girlfriend and she locks herself in the bathroom to hide from him. Either way, he's going away for a while.


By the way, it appears that the police could of bungled the case:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/20/police-hilton-botha-pistorius-account_n_2723566.html

I also now think Oscar might actually get bail, though the hearing and final arguments will continue tomorrow.



J-Greens
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20 Feb 2013, 4:52 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Have I posted a series of articles where crimes were prevented using firearms in order to bolster my political position? Got links?


Change the goalposts why don't you? How convenient...



Dox47
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20 Feb 2013, 5:57 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Have I posted a series of articles where crimes were prevented using firearms in order to bolster my political position? Got links?


Change the goalposts why don't you? How convenient...


You: you do the same thing I do

Me: prove it

You: that's moving the goalposts

Once again, if you don't know what a word or term means, don't use it.


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Dox47
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21 Feb 2013, 4:35 am

@J-Greens:

In case you miss it, here is an example from another thread of what moving the goalposts actually looks like:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5240044.html#5240044

Here is the Wikipedia page regarding the phrase, in case things still aren't clear for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts


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naturalplastic
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21 Feb 2013, 5:25 pm

Expensive points!

Gimmie some expensive political points!



J-Greens
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22 Feb 2013, 8:12 am

Talking about one point then asks about another...how covert!

However, on topic - gun and bullets were UNLICENSED. Bail must surely surely be denied.



J-Greens
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22 Feb 2013, 9:25 am

Stunned! 8O
Well, at least I don't live in South Africa! :lol:
Feel sorry for those working in hospitals or law enforcement, though... :(



Jono
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22 Feb 2013, 11:20 am

J-Greens wrote:
Talking about one point then asks about another...how covert!

However, on topic - gun and bullets were UNLICENSED. Bail must surely surely be denied.


No, they weren't unlicensed. Oscar Pistorius definitely did have a license for the gun that he shot Reeva with. Police did find unlicensed ammunition belonging to his father in a safe but it was not what he shot his girlfriend with.



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22 Feb 2013, 11:29 am

J-Greens wrote:
Stunned! 8O
Well, at least I don't live in South Africa! :lol:
Feel sorry for those working in hospitals or law enforcement, though... :(


Actually, I'm not surprised that he got bail. I've been following what was going on the whole week and it was the fault of the investigating officer that he got bail. If he wanted to get him denied bail, he should of done a better job at presenting the case than the crappy job he did. I've been listening for almost 2 hours on the radio to the judge outlining what conditions would be needed for bail to be denied and he explained thoroughly why they weren't met.

Also, did you click on the link I gave in my previous post where I said the that police appeared to have bungled the case?

Oh by the way, the judge also said that the reasons for granting bail doesn't mean that the states case against Oscar isn't strong or that he's not guilty. We'll find that out at the main trial.



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23 Feb 2013, 3:58 am

The only thing Ive heard that helps his case is that a reporter who'd met him previously described him as jumpy and concerned about his safety. That fits the picture of a guy who fires through a shut door without knowing who he is shooting at.

But the police version has yelling and screaming for an hour or more.



Jono
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23 Feb 2013, 7:58 am

simon_says wrote:
The only thing Ive heard that helps his case is that a reporter who'd met him previously described him as jumpy and concerned about his safety. That fits the picture of a guy who fires through a shut door without knowing who he is shooting at.

But the police version has yelling and screaming for an hour or more.


You do realize that he'll probably get time in prison even if he beats the murder charge, right? In his own version of events, he shot at a closed door without identifying who was there. At the very least, he will be convicted of culpable homicide (equivalent of manslaughter).