Is it ok to believe in God......
What a meaningless label to apply to the universe if it's sufficient enough to just call the universe a universe. It also detracts from the main point, which is that there is no evidence whatsoever for an entity that is believed by many to be the Creator of this universe and to be distinct from the universe and everything in it.
What I am saying to you is that he can't be governed by a book. He himself can't be governed by anything. It is his book that governs you, through its teachings, not snide mentioning of absurd fairy magic.
The Bible is a history book, and a book to live by. Everywhere it talks about God's nature, it never describes God having a solid rule to what he is. Most of the time it mentions him being all-powerful, indescribable, things that suggest he has both a free will, and the power to do anything a human can and can't imagine with the thought of his mind.
That is what the Judeo-Christian God is, and in this belief, we believe any other person telling us there are more than one God, Shintoism is the true religion, or that someone is an elf vampire and we should drink his koolaid, is wrong and doesn't believe in our (the) God.
Religions like Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, they promote collective thinking, all accepting for the most part. Yet to them, when a someone comes and starts telling the people they preside over for spiritual advice, that they are all wrong, and are going to hell unless they believe in God, they believe that person is not good for the health of their people. It is quite obvious as to why.
You can't believe in our (the) God, without believing what he told the world to do. That is monotheism. But as you said yourself, he can't be governed by a book. That doesn't mean he can be governed by any thing else we could comprehend either, as in rules, even the word God itself.
The bible is a book created by man. It has been edited many times, even way out of biblical time, to justify the society it was created in. If you look into the history of the bible then you will quickly see how fallible it is.
The bible has its uses, but is not the word of God. The word of god has no words.
The bible isn't necessarily a book to live by. We can see how it has been interpreted many times by religious groups to mean x and y.
God is a simple concept, and, for me, a simple reality. It stands by itself.
I believe in God, god, g o d. If you wish to qualify or disqualify me, based on your own understanding or intellectualising, so be it. That will not change my relationship, which is real and unshakeable and it's not a club that I need to qualify for. Rather, it's actually appreciating the simplicity of it, and being a part of that simplicity, on that level.
We're going in circles. You insist on having evidence provided in a format in which it cannot be done. And if it could be, well, you'd be so terrified you'd never escape a psychiatric ward.
At least you like Sepultura
you may say that people who are far more intelligent than me (and you obviously) have already blazed the trail of speculation about the universe, but i am not so subservient as you.
for example, it is believed that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. that is because the further away a galaxy (and other objects)is observed, the more red is the spectrum of it's visible light. i wonder whether the energy in their electromagnetic signatures is dulled over time and distance that is my own idea and it will be summarily dismissed by people like you who go to wikipedia to learn what you know. you just blindly surrender your own contemplative ability and adopt as true the thoughts of people who you think are smarter than you.
I have no idea with regard to your level of intelligence nor its relationship to my own, nor for that matter the intelligence of those who have done the research which I look to for understanding. However when you start talking of my subservience to the known evidence and what i perceive as your elevation of your own contemplation's above them, I seriously have to wonder about the way in which you are applying your intelligence.
i am not sure my contention is aimed in the correct direction, but i think i remember you saying that "the big bang" was at the beginning of time, and when i suggested that i thought time has existed forever, you told me to read and educate myself. maybe it was not you. it was not in this thread.
i was not questioning any other assertion than that there was no time before the big bang.
Really
what i said was not with a theology in mind. i just think that if i never existed forever, or if i did not exist for only 14.5 billion years (which is akin to forever because there was never a time before that)
well then your refutations are moot.
it is better to refute the insane than to refute whatever alternative there is to insanity.
We're going in circles. You insist on having evidence provided in a format in which it cannot be done. And if it could be, well, you'd be so terrified you'd never escape a psychiatric ward.
At least you like Sepultura
If it cannot be done, then you have no valid reason to believe such an entity exists. An entity as powerful as God could reveal himself with ease if he so wanted to. He could incarnate in the flesh, show us miracles, solve heaps of mysteries of the world for us, teach us things we couldn't know otherwise about the universe, resurrect the dead, and do lots of fantastical things to show he exists. And even if such an entity did not turn out to be God, I'd still consider it God myself (until I had a better explanation coming for all these miracles).
Also, my username is based on a character for a game called Grim Fandango. It stands for Manny Calavera (check avatar), not Max Cavalera.
I'm agnostic. Believe that is the most rational and ''logic choice of beliefs, because isn't the extreme gnosticism and also the extreme agnosticism, like atheism, one spectrum. (All abstract human things are spectruum).
I ask mylsef ''who'' or 'what'' created all universes (are more than one, right??), My genius teen cousin explain to me about the ''strings theory'' and upon this i developed some inferences like, don't there death, all of things of universe stay on a eternal and perfect cycle.
Get IT..
NAH...I did not think you would...
:roll: :roll: :roll: Of course I get it. I just do not wish to enter a debate on the nature of God from this point of view, I do not wish to discuss whether we are all god, whether the universe is god, whether the Interconnectedness of things is god etc, these things do not bother me, they are purely speculative and do not interfere with mine nor anyone else's life. If I or anyone else chooses to ignore them there is no consequence.
I do have an issue with the Abrahamic style of god, or any god who's believers feel they must interfere with the lives of others. Which is where I started out in this thread by saying, believe what you will but unless you have evidence to back up your belief do not force others to behave in the way your belief dictates.
No you see IT appears you still do not get IT everything is speculation my friend..unless you are disconnected to the GOD that IS..and oh yeah that IS possible if you ever go to Human HELL..you will understand what the abscence of GOD IS..
Illusion is Love and reality...and reality is hell...enjoy your journey and illusion my friend...
As you create the GOD that IS....
If you ever get to reality...
Just tell me i told you so...
IT is hell after ALL....
ReALIty that is not real estate...get IT...
yet?
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KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
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I ask mylsef ''who'' or 'what'' created all universes (are more than one, right??), My genius teen cousin explain to me about the ''strings theory'' and upon this i developed some inferences like, don't there death, all of things of universe stay on a eternal and perfect cycle.
By definition GOD is agnostic...
Think about that ONE
for a
while
if
one wills...
IT is really simple math....
1
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KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
We're going in circles. You insist on having evidence provided in a format in which it cannot be done. And if it could be, well, you'd be so terrified you'd never escape a psychiatric ward.
At least you like Sepultura :)
If it cannot be done, then you have no valid reason to believe such an entity exists. An entity as powerful as God could reveal himself with ease if he so wanted to. He could incarnate in the flesh, show us miracles, solve heaps of mysteries of the world for us, teach us things we couldn't know otherwise about the universe, resurrect the dead, and do lots of fantastical things to show he exists. And even if such an entity did not turn out to be God, I'd still consider it God myself (until I had a better explanation coming for all these miracles).
Also, my username is based on a character for a game called Grim Fandango. It stands for Manny Calavera (check avatar), not Max Cavalera.
WEll.. the thing about GOD IS you cannot put chains are/or expectations on GOD one only lives GOD..
In suggesting GOD is only the Universe one is suggesting that GOD IS the universe...
That too is placing chains on GOD...
And any label too..even GOD so we can call IT IT or WHATever too2two....
And silly humans as specks of dust in analogy..IS about as siLLy as anything I can imagine...
GOD has no limitations..as we cannot even SEe God with the neKID eye if you will...
And as an ADULT most adults can not even come close to a nuance of the higher power that IS..ASIS..expansive and never limited or expect@ed...
If one ever experiences 'one mustard seed of IT'...one will LIkeLYUnderstand...
But Until then...
ALL i can say IS GOOD luck as life and GOD IS..BUT IS NOT FAIR...
So continue to save yourself from the lION..if you will...
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KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
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Last edited by aghogday on 06 Oct 2013, 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I ask mylsef ''who'' or 'what'' created all universes (are more than one, right??), My genius teen cousin explain to me about the ''strings theory'' and upon this i developed some inferences like, don't there death, all of things of universe stay on a eternal and perfect cycle.
By definition GOD is agnostic...
Think about that ONE
for a
while
if
one wills...
IT is really simple math....
1
I do not understand that you say, sorry.
You could explain to me.
Well, i think that atheists lose your point when decide to debate about universe origin and their misteries. Atheism will change to a new form of beliefs because, now is probably, impossible to prove if ''God'' there or not. So, be a atheist is the same that be a other religious, because they belief in misticism, don't proved scientifically.
Thank you Goddard... I speak like this to elicit wonderful responses such as the one you provide here...
Without a little controversy..there is not the same Passion to gather the greatest of responses in discussion so ALl can learn more...
God is a mystery..and Mysteries are always agnostic..as we cannot measure mysteries as proven entities of realities..the verity of the expression of mystery IT..self...IS ALL
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KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Oh, right! Shame.
If it's all a dream, I couldn't know anyway. Science has been working quite well for the past few millennia, so I'll live with assuming that this universe operates according to the various laws of science and mathematics.
DentArthurDent
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Yes, being agnostic is the most rational path, but again look to the evidence, look to the probabilities.
Do you really think there is a 50% chance of Bertrand Russel's tea-pot actually existing, after all it is impossible to prove nor disprove. I repeat once again Richard Dawkins position on god and other non provable/ non dis-provable concepts "I am agnostic about god in the same way I am agnostic about the tooth fairy" in other words if something is not dis-provable then it stands to reason you cannot state categorically that it does not exist. Therefore it is rational to look at the probabilities and for this you need evidence.
Another example is the Higgs Bosun particle. Higgs suggested its existence over 40 years ago. The existence of this particle is still to be completely verified. Using the rationale of some posters here, it could be said that until it's verification the chance of its existence remains at 50%. That would be nonsense. The Higgs Bosun has a great deal of evidence pointing towards it and as that evidence grows so does the probability factor for its existence.
Agnosticism needs a scale (or spectrum if you like), at one extreme would be Based on the available evidence, X almost certainly exists and at the other extreme would be Based on the available,evidence, Y almost certainly does not exist.
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"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
Oh, right! Shame. :lol:
If it's all a dream, I couldn't know anyway. Science has been working quite well for the past few millennia, so I'll live with assuming that this universe operates according to the various laws of science and mathematics.
Sure..science and mathematics works.. and that too in an expression of GOD along with Poetry2 if you will..but if NOT IT does not matter as IT STILL exists whether you are an observer or a passive bystander..if you will3...
Dreams work too...and have always been the progenitor of science and mathematics 4,5,6,7,8,9..and beyond...
But again...
Not all people dream..some only live in human hell...not you necessarily..just a generality2..if you will...3
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Without a little controversy..there is not the same Passion to gather the greatest of responses in discussion so ALl can learn more...
God is a mystery..and Mysteries are always agnostic..as we cannot measure mysteries as proven entities of realities..the verity of the expression of mystery IT..self...IS ALL
Thanks to you!! !
Yes, i think when atheists say ''god don't there'' is exactly the same to say ''God is a hippie blonde of Palestine''. Repeat, the atheism is a new way to belief, religions generally is a misticism, agnosticism is a choice to us to interprete all the mysteries with liberty. I like to think that God could be all of the universes how also one nano particule in the atmosphere in one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn. God could be all in all places, inside and outside the universe. Us could be part of god.

