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Are people who believe in God delusional?

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MCalavera
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27 Nov 2013, 9:15 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I do not believe Jesus is anymore God than you or me. If Jesus's original meaning is that we are all our own god, which it could have been, the authorities would have wigged hearing that and might demand his death, then I agree with him. We all contain God. Jesus was, most likely, engaged in metaphysics, philosophy and theology including mysticism. I believe he wanted to over throw the Jewish leaders and the Roman rulers. He wanted his own state where his followers and he were in charge. He challenged God.

After his crucifixion, his followers had the same dilemma many celebrities face today, how to stay relevant in an ever changing world full of people with short attention spans. Celebrities today would kill for Jesus's PR department.


Where's your primary source for all these claims?



wittgenstein
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27 Nov 2013, 10:07 pm

While on the cross (a very intense torture) Jesus shrieked," My God,my God why hast thou forsaken me." To me (at least) that is very chilling. My interpretation is that Jesus was a man (son of man is aramaic for a regular human) that thought his enlightenment would eliminate any suffering. He was shocked to discover that he was wrong.


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27 Nov 2013, 10:09 pm

No. Not in a psychiatric sense. For it to be a delusion in the psychiatric sense, it has to occur as part of a disease process (i.e. it has to be a manifestation of mental illness). A person who believes in God, goes to church, takes care of their home, socializes normally, works, etc., does not necessarily have a mental illness.

In studying mental illness or evaluating a patient, you can't just take individual signs and symptoms out of context and use that to make a diagnosis. To make a valid diagnosis, the signs and symptoms have to be occurring as part of a whole, a Gestalt, that suggests the presence of psychopathology. This article goes into this distinction quite well, I think:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3668119/

So no, a person who simply believes in God and goes to church is not mentally ill based merely on those isolated signs.


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27 Nov 2013, 10:10 pm

GregCav wrote:
I find the title of this thread very offensive.



That's ok I find religion extremely offensive.

As to the question a deist belief is probably not delusional although it does seem to betray a lack of imagination.

A belief In an interventionist god and requisite religious text is either an example of cognitive dissonance, straight out delusion or ignorance of the observable realities.


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28 Nov 2013, 12:06 am

wittgenstein wrote:
While on the cross (a very intense torture) Jesus shrieked," My God,my God why hast thou forsaken me." To me (at least) that is very chilling. My interpretation is that Jesus was a man (son of man is aramaic for a regular human) that thought his enlightenment would eliminate any suffering. He was shocked to discover that he was wrong.

I disagree. That's also the title of a psalm. I like to think that He was reciting Psalm 22. The ending stands in stark contrast to the pain expressed at the beginning:

Quote:
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

My apologies for the KJV…it was just the quickest version I could get to at the moment, but you can get a rough idea. It doesn't end with feelings of abandonment, but of continued faith. It begins in pain and defeat, ends in victory and praise. See, I don't think Jesus ever believed God the Father abandoned Him. I think even on the cross drawing His last breaths He was still trying to teach us something. Psalm 22 captures this beautifully, and how appropriate given the circumstances!



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28 Nov 2013, 12:16 am

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I do not believe Jesus is anymore God than you or me. If Jesus's original meaning is that we are all our own god, which it could have been, the authorities would have wigged hearing that and might demand his death, then I agree with him. We all contain God. Jesus was, most likely, engaged in metaphysics, philosophy and theology including mysticism. I believe he wanted to over throw the Jewish leaders and the Roman rulers. He wanted his own state where his followers and he were in charge. He challenged God.

After his crucifixion, his followers had the same dilemma many celebrities face today, how to stay relevant in an ever changing world full of people with short attention spans. Celebrities today would kill for Jesus's PR department.


Where's your primary source for all these claims?

Where is anybody's source for any claims about Jesus? The New Testament is dubious at best and for all I know, God's word can be flowing through me. Why not? If these others can intuit God, I can, too. I am just not allowed to add to the testimony of God while these ancients were allowed. It's not fair. Not in the slightest. What I think is just as valid and is worthy of being read or heard.



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28 Nov 2013, 12:18 am

Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.



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28 Nov 2013, 1:28 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.



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28 Nov 2013, 1:28 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I do not believe Jesus is anymore God than you or me. If Jesus's original meaning is that we are all our own god, which it could have been, the authorities would have wigged hearing that and might demand his death, then I agree with him. We all contain God. Jesus was, most likely, engaged in metaphysics, philosophy and theology including mysticism. I believe he wanted to over throw the Jewish leaders and the Roman rulers. He wanted his own state where his followers and he were in charge. He challenged God.

After his crucifixion, his followers had the same dilemma many celebrities face today, how to stay relevant in an ever changing world full of people with short attention spans. Celebrities today would kill for Jesus's PR department.


Where's your primary source for all these claims?

Where is anybody's source for any claims about Jesus? The New Testament is dubious at best and for all I know, God's word can be flowing through me. Why not? If these others can intuit God, I can, too. I am just not allowed to add to the testimony of God while these ancients were allowed. It's not fair. Not in the slightest. What I think is just as valid and is worthy of being read or heard.


Nice dodge.



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28 Nov 2013, 1:34 am

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.

You know that's really cold, narrow minded and unfair. You should laud my ability to put myself in the mystical mode of the Bible. Instead you mock it.



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28 Nov 2013, 1:40 am

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I do not believe Jesus is anymore God than you or me. If Jesus's original meaning is that we are all our own god, which it could have been, the authorities would have wigged hearing that and might demand his death, then I agree with him. We all contain God. Jesus was, most likely, engaged in metaphysics, philosophy and theology including mysticism. I believe he wanted to over throw the Jewish leaders and the Roman rulers. He wanted his own state where his followers and he were in charge. He challenged God.

After his crucifixion, his followers had the same dilemma many celebrities face today, how to stay relevant in an ever changing world full of people with short attention spans. Celebrities today would kill for Jesus's PR department.


Where's your primary source for all these claims?

Where is anybody's source for any claims about Jesus? The New Testament is dubious at best and for all I know, God's word can be flowing through me. Why not? If these others can intuit God, I can, too. I am just not allowed to add to the testimony of God while these ancients were allowed. It's not fair. Not in the slightest. What I think is just as valid and is worthy of being read or heard.


Nice dodge.


You should do some serious considering. We all should.



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28 Nov 2013, 2:42 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.

You know that's really cold, narrow minded and unfair. You should laud my ability to put myself in the mystical mode of the Bible. Instead you mock it.


I understand, but honesty is necessary when it comes to these matters.

No individual should claim any special powers or mental abilities or secret divine knowledge without providing evidence to back them up.



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28 Nov 2013, 2:45 am

I have and continue to do so. And I look to evidence (in this case, primary textual sources) to confirm/invalidate my considerations.

The Bible is not evidence for a mystical origin for Jesus. If anything, it stresses a very religious Jewish side to him with an apocalyptic twist to his teachings.

The whole spiritualizing his teachings thingy happened AFTER he long died and after the realization that things just weren't being fulfilled as Jesus promised they would.



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28 Nov 2013, 2:47 am

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5771421.html#5771421


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28 Nov 2013, 2:50 am

beneficii wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5771421.html#5771421


Maybe you should read my first few posts then in this thread.



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28 Nov 2013, 4:07 am

beneficii wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.



Sounds rather delusional to me. I'd like you to explain what you understand the psychiatric definition of a delusion to be. Unless, of course, you meant to imply that these feelings are hallucinations - which I'm quite content to accept.