Russian army has invaded the Crimea

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The Sudetenland all over again.

Hooray for Russian imperialism.

Oh, and now would be a good time to remember the Russian genocide of the Ukranians 80 years ago.

Not really. They are just playing America's chess game with them and know fine well that the west is no longer in any position to run its mouth off because they need Russian business as much as if not more than the US, especially the former Eastern bloc.

I am ambivalent towards the whole situation.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... xQ_2IUWDSQ

http://rt.com/news/kerry-russia-us-pretext-494/

What Mr Kerry?

You mean like invading a country that you falsely accuse of having WMD's?

I think the russians wont let go of their Krim military ship-haven, as much as the US would not let go Hawaii out of the same reason.

I do hope by all means, that a peaceful departing of the Krim area can be done. I´d send UNO watchers for the poll in March, that they will don in Krim area, and if the majority of the Krim people really wants to re-unite to russia I´d respect it, as long as the poll is done correctly.

That might not be 100% correctly, but if getting right is linked to yearlong civil war, then getting right, might not be that right anymore.

I support the sovereignty of the countries involved.

Ukraine should be annexed to Russia, respecting Russia's sovereignty over Ukraine.

Bush and Fox, Bush and Fox. You really do need fresh talking points. Bush is gone, get over it.

Putin saw that Obama did nothing after he drew the line in the sand in Syria, so Putin feels free to ignore Obama. You do realize that invasion is not the only option. Perhaps now is a great time to announce the seizure of assets of high level Russian politicians and ban all direct flights between Russia and the EU/US, and see how they like being treated like the pariah country that Russia has become.

Seems like the economic sanctions against Iran worked out quite well so let's apply the same sanctions against Russia especially targeting their banking and finance industry. Let's see how the Russian oligarchs like Emperor Putin when their finances are threatened.

Last edited by Shrapnel on 03 Mar 2014, 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

You keep using the word sovereignty, I don't think it means what you think it means.

I think it does mean what he thinks it means. He seems to support the idea that Ukraine wasn't a "legitimate" sovereign nation to begin with.

I was actually comparing Obama to his less than stellar predecessor by bringing up Bush. And I bring up Fox because they have a definite agenda meant to be disloyal to this sitting President.
As for Syria - Obama, you might have noticed, has to work with the congress, especially in major international affairs. There simply wasn't the support he needed to act. And by that time, it was impossible to tell legitimate freedom fighters from Muslin extremists, so marching in to fight for the rebels would have been unwise on our part. Even Republicans know this.

Seems like another attempt to reanimate the Russian Empire, like the USSR.

The hypocrisy is incredible; Kerry's remark about invasions with "phony justifications" for one. I just stumbed across an article that sort of admitted that the US broke all its promises and is interfering with countries like the Ukraine and surrounding Russia with NATO but it's good and the Russians are wrong because we are morally superior...

Russia's big problem for 20 years is that everyone always assumed they would roll over. In 2008 for the first time they did not. Clearly the lesson was not learnt. It must be re-taught.

I hope I dont disturb someone with that oppinion, but I think actually it should be a countries citizen deciding, what they want to do with their country. And not USA OR Russia. O_o I mean if my countries citizens would have decided upon something, last thing on earth that interests us, is upon some foreign country have decided otherwise. O_o

No, Russia's big problem is that they have no friends. They treat their neighbors like sh*t and they are all running west as fast as possible. The EU is happy to have them. This is going to do Russia no favors on that score. A Pole might piss on a Russian if he was on fire, for a small fee, and now they'll add many Ukrainians to that mindset.

From a western perspective Putin's errors will be useful. He's a big boy and he knows nothing is free.

Russia wasn't on our side. You do remember how the USSR ALLIED with Nazi Germany to take over Finland and parts of the Baltic?

They ended up on our side but not our allies.

They did bear the brunt of the German forces.... but I can tell you very few people in Europe shed a tear back then or even now about that because literally they started the aggression and war in Europe alongside Hitler.


Ukraine are basically no different than what the Russians did to Finland. They saw the world geo-political situation as inherently unstable, they saw that their target had very few hopes of aid or support from nations that normally would have helped.... and then they manufactured or seized the chance to invade and annex territory.

Crimea is part of the Ukraine. The Ukranian people began revolting after their president refused to join the EU and showed clearly that he was nothing more than a Russian puppet. The people in Crimea do NOT WANT to be part of Russia. They do welcome the Russian troops for the safety and stability from the near-civil war that is brewing but they do not want to hand over sovereignty back to the Kremlin.

However, Putin is forcing them now into it. Even if Crimea secceeds it will be at the instigation of the Russians, with their military in place and placing a puppet leader there.

Russia having the Bomb, their action can't be touched, they deter us. We can obstruct a further build-up by sea there and we can propose UN auspices for a Crimean state with a treaty for balance between all the ethnic interests on Bosnia's model.

But more immediately, the Ukrainian treaty has now lapsed. The eventual reward for Ukraine being the only country that actually did unilateral nuclear disarmament. Did it in exchange for the same treaty of guarantee, 1994, whose breach is now being cited. So we are now entitled to give Ukraine back the Bomb, to hold the rest of its line with.

Last edited by tern on 04 Mar 2014, 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Prediction: Russia will annex Crimea and stop there. The world will soon stop caring, and that'll be that. There will probably be a propaganda campaign in the Ukraine, but I doubt Putin will wholesale march into the country and annex that too. He definitely won't mess with Poland. They're just mobilizing as a precautionary measure.