Zionism is no different than Nazism

Post Reply New Topic

WP Keeps burning until it depletes all local oxygen supplies. It is a chemical weapon however you look at it. The differences are academic.

Either way the people of Kurdistan would disagree with you.

Both use political repression and suppression - oh, wow. Try being pro-Israeli in Gaza and see how long your politics remain unsuppressed. For that matter, try stating a pro-Israeli position down there and see how long you remain alive.

Both are racially/ethnically motivated - as if the Palestinians aren't? Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Britain and other mid-east countries treated the Palestinians just as badly, if not worse, than Israel has, before Israel even existed. Where was the outcry then? But add some Jewish people into the mix and suddenly they're being mistreated.

Both are genocidal - Wait, the Zionists have exterminated the Palestinians and committed genocide against them? Must have missed that part. In fact, given Israel's overwhelming military superiority, and the fact that they have nuclear weapons that they could use against a relatively concentrated Palestinian population at a moment's notice if they so chose, the evidence is pretty overwhelming that not only have the Israelis not committed genocide, but have no desire to. Contrast that with Hamas's stated goal for the destruction of Israel, their intentional targeting of Israeli civilians, but their limited / insufficient military means to achieve the extermination of the Jews, and the case is a lot stronger that the Palestinians would be committing genocide against the 'zionists', if only they could.

Both believe in torture and humiliation as legitimate - The Palestinians torture their own people. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4169/ ... violations and http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/04/20/gaza ... gs-torture

Both brag about their killings - As does Hamas - http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/1 ... 9GFdflV-7I

Both use violence to quell all dissidence and opposition - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/h ... -1.1205010

Both build apartheid walls and relocate ethnic minorities to ghettoes - Well, I suppose the Palestinians don't force Christian Palestinians into ghettos, but its not much better:



Both target civilians then blame their enemies as the cause (hitler did that quite a bit in his speeches which you can read online) - sounds like all the bad things the Israelis have done to them are Hamas's usual excuses for firing rockets randomly at Israeli civilian population centers.

Both celebrate genocide (watch israelis picnicking on youtube as missiles hit gaza. watch how much fun their extravagant celebrations are) - Palestinians celebrating the September 11 attacks, anyone? http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/09/12 ... est-world/

Both use arbitrary detainment indefinitely under false pretenses - like kidnapping the other side's kids (and later murdering them? *both* sides guilty recently of this) - http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06 ... idnapping/

Both have used starvation and malnutrition to weaken their targets (gaza blockade, holocaust emaciated jews) - http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/18801 ... 3IrdsS2.97

Both are land hungry and covetous - well, considering the Palestinians are not willing to settle for any state that basically doesn't include all of Gaza, the West Bank AND all of Israel....

Ok, this part also needs to be clarified.

Palestine may be a British "creation"; but the people who lived there are indigenous Arabized population of this land ; You see their lands was part of the Ottoman empire, but their identity didn't change to Turks, they never spoke Turkish as main language.

They speak the Palestinian Arabic dialect (Arabic in reality is not one language, the difference between Levantine Arabic and Maghreb Arabic is huge that their speakers can hardly understand each other - the Arabic was merged with older similar Semitic languages to form the regional Arabic dialects), their dialect is descended from Canaanite, Aramaic, Turkish and Hebrew languages, it doesn't matter if they are called Palestinians today, or were called Jordanians in the recent past or X-men in some ancient time. What matters that these people are the indigenous population of this land; unlike most Israeli who were Europeans came from Europe (then they pulled Arab jews from other countries) and invented a new language to teach.

The "Palestine is a Britain creation" doesn't add +1 to the Zionist invasion of the land argument nor it does -1 to the indigenous people's right to have their own country.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 25 Jul 2014, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think the "who was there earlier" arguments on any side are pretty moot. Every people got to its land by invading it, or by moving there and outnumbering its earlier population.

So, what constitutes a nation? What legitimizes it? Hamas' charter doesn't exactly give any hints of civilization.

I guess the question is, then, if you drew on a map the area where the Palestinian people historically lived, would that area lie entirely within the current State of Israel (including Gaza and the West Bank), or would it extend further into neighboring countries like Jordan, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon? Would the area in question even be centered on what is currently Israeli land? Unless the Palestinian area is exclusively within the current borders of Israel, why is the onus placed exclusively on Israel to create a Palestinian state from their land? Why should not the land come in part from the lands of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, if not entirely from those countries? Better yet, why are none of these countries considered to be the Palestinian State that everyone wants to see exist?

From Wikipedia (my comments in Italics):

"In Jordan, there is no official census data for how many inhabitants are Palestinian (Gee, I wonder why - it would be awfully inconvenient for the whole Arab anti-Israel / pro-Palestinian campaign if it were to be popularly known that there is another much better candidate country from which a Palestinian state could be created) but they are estimated to constitute half of the population,[10][11] which in 2008 amounted to about 3 million.[11] Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics put their number at 3.24 million in 2009.[12] There are more than two million registered Palestinian refugees in Jordan as of January 2012.[13]"

So now, about half of Jordan is already Palestinian. If Palestinians currently living in Gaza and/or the West Bank relocated to Jordan, or if some or part of Gaza or the West Bank were returned to Jordan, suddenly Jordan would have a clear Palestinian majority and would be a Palestinian state within the bounds of historical Palestine. Problem solved. But, shhhhh, don't tell that to the Israeli Palestinians, the Jordanian Palestinians, or any of the other Arabs. Its very much an inconvenient truth for them.

I don't really understand the question. People, obviously, constitute a nation, but I don't get how that requires further legitimation.

We're all just immigrants. Land means nothing. The arabs in that general area should be squidging up. It's wall to wall muslims everywhere you look in that area of the world, stop seeing the world in terms of map lines and you would see all we're talking about is moving a few cities to the east, north, south, or whatever.

If immigration is ok for the 10s of millions of muslims that have come to europe, why cant you make space for just a few million jews? There are like 6 million in the entire of israel. And they more than pay their way. They bring prosperity to the areas they come to. The whole lot of them are well educated. You should be happy to have them. What about the diversity they bring to the area? The colourful customs, interesting foods?

You sound more than a little xenophobic in this one particular issue. Not saying thats true in general but you seem a little racisty in this one area at least.

The context is ethics. Politics is derivative of ethics. Hamas is a terrorist organization, and their charter reflects this, and this is supposed to lay the foundation for a Palestinian state? I think it would be best if Israel went in and annexed Gaza in an effort to stop the madness once and for all. The international community should offer its support.

I still don't get how that is imlied by my comment (which I wrote in answer to arguments that only Arabs are legitimately there because they are indigenous). But anyway, Hamas has had little legitimacy anywhere and lost that by repeatedly attacking civilians.

Oh, I do agree with you, of course. The nature of the argument you questioned is clearly racist. Racism is an unethical standard, thus the argument can be refuted as morally invalid by definition. Hamas' charter is filled with racism. It does not live up to ethical standards. Civilization should triumph and thrive by expanding its borders. This seems to me as the natural order of things: Ethics prevails.

And if those Muslim immigrants try to stir troubles, form organized militias, do terrorist attacks and attempt to create an Islamic state in Europe, no matter how small it is, then you would certainly demand to throw them in jail or to kick them out; the Jewish "immigrants" from the very start did all that, Irgun, Lehi, Haganah, hotel bombing, massacres, systematized land purchasing from the poor....

Equating legal immigration (or even illegal) to this planned demographic invasion is laughable.

Also the "We are more advanced and educated, let us conquer your lands" argument is insulting and laughable too, this had been used by the Romans too btw.

If the land was purchased legally, then what's the problem. Technically, that was when the Ottoman Empire still had domain over that part of the world. The Jews who purchased the land, legally owned the land that they purchased while living under the Ottoman Empire, so the Ottoman's allowed them to live there.

What land did the Jews purchase from the Ottoman Empire? Where is it located?

The land that they purchased was the same land that became Israel under the British Mandate after the Ottoman Empire collapsed and
technically, it's the same land that we call Israel now, where the ongoing Israeli-Palistinian conflict is taking place. The British Mandate also tried to establish the borders of where Palestine was supposed to be.

Not surprisingly in the territory of present Israel. And (I think) it wasn't typically purchased from the Ottoman Empire but from their previous legitimate owners within the Ottoman Empire.


Of course it's not all that land but small parts of it.