congratulations Republicans on your elections .....

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05 Nov 2014, 11:13 pm

I thought this map of the new House of Representatives was remarkable.

Red = Republican elected regions to House of Representatives
Blue = Democrat regions to House of Representatives

And Obama looks at this and merely says, "I hear you". He sound be reversing course on everything he does.

https://ringoffireradio.com/2014/11/mid ... ves-video/

auntblabby
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05 Nov 2014, 11:17 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

And Obama looks at this and merely says, "I hear you". He sound be reversing course on everything he does.

he needs to hold fast along with the somewhat overtimid democrats everywhere, they need to own their convictions. thank god for that veto pen, it will get a workout. it seems republicans expect democrats to become republicans. never happen.

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06 Nov 2014, 12:48 am

Fnord wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I recall reading years ago how Horatio Alger may not have been writing so much about poor boys getting rich on their own effort because he wanted to promote the notion of personal achievement, but because he liked young boys (not young men mind you, but children) a little too much, if you get my drift...

I've actually read some of those Horatio Alger stories. They're not so much about "Rags-to-Riches" as they are about "Rags-to-Patronage" in that ...

Wikipedia wrote:

"Essentially, all of Alger's novels share the same theme: a young boy struggles through hard work to escape poverty. Critics, however, are quick to point out that it is not the hard work itself that rescues the boy from his fate, but rather some extraordinary act of bravery or honesty, which brings him into contact with a wealthy elder gentleman, who takes the boy in as a ward. The boy might return a large sum of money that was lost or rescue someone from an overturned carriage, bringing the boy - and his plight - to the attention of some wealthy individual. It has been suggested that this reflects Alger's own patronizing attitude to the boys he tried to help.

(Source: Horatio Alger, Jr.)

May as well call them the "Dick Grayson to Robin" stories.

Personally, I believe that if you remove the literary Deus Ex Machina of the wealthy patron, you would have a story more like mine: a "Rags-to-Coveralls" story. There was no wealthy patron to bail me out of poverty. Instead, I took every reasonable job offer I received -- even the ones that I hated -- because I knew that waiting for someone to take pity on me and take me in under their care is as bogus as sitting on a stool in a drugstore and waiting for a Hollywood producer make you into his biggest star.

It may have happened to someone else (once), but it would never happen to me (ever).

Those "Horatio Alger" stories are just that. Stories. Works of fiction. Fantasy reading material for those who could afford them, and a means of income for the wealthy Horatio Alger, Jr.

Mark Twain, not thinking highly of Horatio Alger's stories, had written a satirical story in letter form written by a wealthy man, who threatens to beat anymore boys with his cane if they keep rescuing his daughter from a run away carriage. :lol:

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auntblabby
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06 Nov 2014, 1:48 am

I wonder what twain would think of today's mess?

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06 Nov 2014, 2:20 am

auntblabby wrote:

I wonder what twain would think of today's mess?

I think he'd either have a show on HBO like Bill Maher, or on Comedy Central like Stewart or Colbert, as they use very much the same kind of social/political satire he had. Today, he'd be ridiculing both sides of the aisle whenever they deserved ridicule.

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06 Nov 2014, 2:23 am

we also need a will rogers for today, to make the economic issues more clear to working class folks just like he did.

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06 Nov 2014, 2:47 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Lukecash12 wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

would you prefer the "absolute poor" just died?

So if free stuff is not provided, then that is the same as "letting someone die" ? Shouldn't we provide free cars to everyone, because someone may die from heat exhaustion? And we need free homes, because people may end up in shelters, and those may not be safe. Everything should be free, because there is always the possibility whatever is not free can cause someone to die.

you are dissembling. it is a yes or no question- DO YOU PREFER the uninsured poor just die? or are you willing to abide by some public accommodation of them? yes or no. there is no middle ground, the poor are NOT going to magically "jerk themselves up by their own bootstraps" and join the fantasy land of horatio alger.

They got treatment before Obamacare, and will get treatment after Obamacare. You represent these people as helpless babies who can't take care of themselves. I don't believe that. Also, seem to have no concern for the people hurt by Obamacare.

Exactly. Poor people will do what they've always done and go to the emergency room. Then they will be asked to pay a penalty at the end of the year, which they won't pay. There are also many people who don't buy health insurance because they don't want to pay for it. If you rarely go to the doctor oftentimes you would rather run the chance of paying the penalty than paying way more than that penalty in premiums during the year.

And surprise surprise, I used to be poor myself and I know plenty of people who have had these same experiences. We went to the ER if we got the flu real bad or there was an emergency.

Just because you were happy with the medical coverage afforded to second class citizens hardly means that the rest of us want that. Healthcare is a basic human right in industrialized societies. If anything, it should be something championed by Christian believers.

I did receive that basic human right. But there is a finite amount of resources and a finite amount that the market can handle. What I don't agree with, primarily, is the employer mandate. Expanding medicaid is fine with me, and that's coming from a libertarian.

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06 Nov 2014, 2:49 am

auntblabby wrote:

we also need a will rogers for today, to make the economic issues more clear to working class folks just like he did.

Absolutely. Modern liberalism needs to be not just the political movement of urban hipsters, intellectuals, and the like, but needs to rediscover it's populist roots once represented by Rogers, the old time folk singers of the rural west, and the old time radical labor movement like the Wobblies.

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06 Nov 2014, 2:53 am

auntblabby wrote:

what the cons refuse to talk about, is the fact that before ACA, private health insurance mostly cost more than what most minimum wage earners' net income. they absolutely don't give a damn if the poor suffer and die as a result of being priced out of coverage, all they care about is their middle class complacency.

No, what they care about is getting rid of an incredibly sh***y bill and finding another solution to this issue. Everyone's rates have gone up and many people have a hard time even receiving the care that the ACA offers. The only thing that sounds like vomit to me is the "well they don't care" ad nauseum over the course of the whole thread. Seriously, tighten your belts like big boys and deal with it. The rest of the country disagreed with you.

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06 Nov 2014, 2:54 am

Lukecash12 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Lukecash12 wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

would you prefer the "absolute poor" just died?

I actually would have been more than happy to have had medicaid expanded to include all Americans. But Obama, hoping to extend an olive branch to the right, had adopted a Republican plan based on Romneycare. If the President, or one of his successors, instead expands medicaid for all citizens, I would be very happy.

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06 Nov 2014, 3:00 am

Lukecash12 wrote:

No, what they care about is getting rid of an incredibly sh***y bill and finding another solution to this issue. Everyone's rates have gone up and many people have a hard time even receiving the care that the ACA offers.

total nonsense. anytime you say that "everyone's rates have gone up" you are exaggerating at best. I am part of everybody and my rates did not go up, and in fact if you make up to 400% of the poverty level you will receive subsidies and will prevent a net rate increase and in most cases [<400% of poverty level] rates went down. but go ahead and repeat your hateful falsehoods, it's your breath and not mine. you can take your "tighten your belts" blather and put it on your sandwich for all I care.

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06 Nov 2014, 3:03 am

Lukecash12 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

No, the "rest of the country" didn't disagree with the President, or auntblabby, or me, as for some inane reason Democrats tend to neglect the midterm elections. That, and minimum wage increases and pot legalization - hardly Republican causes - were voted in whenever on the ballot this time around.
And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.

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06 Nov 2014, 3:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.

if only the righties would JUST ADMIT IT. if they would STOP taking us for fools every time they paper over this glaringly obvious fact, then I wouldn't have quite such a hard time dealing with them- it would be merely an odious difference in opinion and not a salt-laden insult.

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06 Nov 2014, 3:14 am

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Obviously, the primary reason why the right is so adamant in repealing the ACA is because it's Obama's centerpiece. With them, it's a matter of personal hatred.

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06 Nov 2014, 3:26 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Obviously, the primary reason why the right is so adamant in repealing the ACA is because it's Obama's centerpiece. With them, it's a matter of personal hatred.

there is just no dealing with those people. IMHO the enmity between the two sides in America, is scarifyingly close to that of the hutus and tutsis just before their blow-up, or the north versus south just before the civil war. and the people pulling the strings [kochs, et al] pitting the two sides against one another are playing with fire.

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06 Nov 2014, 3:28 am

auntblabby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

The poor need to figure out how to get the money they want from the rich, not from the middle class. The middle class don't want poor people to die, rather they have to vote Republican to protect themselves from Democrats who want to take their money.

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