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kraftiekortie
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15 Jun 2015, 7:54 pm

My wife is black. The most I've ever gotten toward being considered black was to be called an "honorary brother."



slave
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15 Jun 2015, 8:36 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
slave wrote:
There are individuals in Africa(black obviously) who have had their DNA tested and NONE of their ancestors ever migrated out of Africa(or even away from the Rift Valley for that matter)....they are the direct descendants of the original anatomically modern Homo Sapien Sapien

I respectfully disagree therefore that "Everyone is multi-racial, there is no pure race..."

Of course, the vast majority of humans are as you say, but not quite all of them :)


Actually what you propose as pure is a false premise. This is not definitively proven.

For one the Khoisan (bushmen) are a different race Capoid considered to be older form of human than Congoloid/Bantu (archaic negraolid), but the buck doesn't stop there.

Why stop at homo sapiens?

Yes the idea of a species is it can't bread with another, but this is a relative concept. Ever heard of ring species? It mean that the concept of genetic purity is meaningless.

Yes the Khoisan genetic root is considered a bottleneck, however this is open to interpretation what this means.

A bottleneck is is exactly that. It can happen for a variety of reasons.


Imagine an extant San male age 31....if everyone is multi-racial, what is/are his 2nd/3rd race(s)?

Ring species is not relevant to my statements.



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16 Jun 2015, 7:46 pm

Why does she look like she gets her hair done at the same place as Sideshow Bob?

PS

That should have been a dead giveaway... Bob isn't black either.


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blauSamstag
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16 Jun 2015, 10:34 pm

I may only have a high school education, but i identify as an ivy league graduate.



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17 Jun 2015, 12:23 pm

Barchan wrote:
Janissy wrote:
He looks utterly white


Your opinion. Not fact.

He looks black to me. If you're judging him as "white" based on skin tone alone, then you're taking the word too literally.


Yet you're judging him based on looks, as well. If you had no idea who he was, no idea on his ancestry, would you be able to say with complete confidence on what ancestry he has?

Such as which of these people is considered black?
Image
Image

Can you even tell what race this man is?
Image

Society does base a lot of it on looks. Sure, maybe you could get the bigots off your back if you show them your heritage, but people will judge you based on looks, and how you act, how you dress. I have friends who were told that they were "too white." And others who were told they were "too black." Because they spoke a certain way based on where they grew up, or dressed a certain way. I have mixed friends who have received flak from all sides because they didn't "fit in" to one culture or another, like they had to choose, they couldn't embrace it all.

There are even medical procedures for people who want to change the way they look, such as Asians getting surgery done on their eyes to look more European, or skin bleaching or super tanning. Some people have even gone so far as to change their looks to look more like the animal they feel they are. This isn't anything new, it's just not spoken of because of the backlash. Just research Otherkin.

The world is too full of judging, and even the people who are speaking up most about acceptance aren't very accepting.


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blauSamstag
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17 Jun 2015, 11:30 pm

If i wanted to be sympathetic, I might point out:

Her parents are extreme christian fundamentalists who abused and traumatized her. Her attempt to live as a black person is part of how she has tried to distance herself from her horrible parents.

But the schadenfreude is too good.



beneficii
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17 Jun 2015, 11:43 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Good point. Part of the reason I probably couldn't pass for black is my lack of experience. People make fun of the black dialect, but they're ignorant about linguistics. It has strict rules, just like any language. Interestingly, it appears that using aks for ask extends back to West African languages that lack the sk diphthong.

There's an interesting author lecture about passing that I heard on BookTV. It's an underresearched topic, particularly in the case of whites passing as black.


It goes back to Old English:

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/ ... e-still-do


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Kraichgauer
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18 Jun 2015, 12:07 am

blauSamstag wrote:
If i wanted to be sympathetic, I might point out:

Her parents are extreme christian fundamentalists who abused and traumatized her. Her attempt to live as a black person is part of how she has tried to distance herself from her horrible parents.

But the schadenfreude is too good.


I actually had not known that. Shows you you learn something new everyday.


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kamiyu910
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18 Jun 2015, 12:27 am

blauSamstag wrote:
If i wanted to be sympathetic, I might point out:

Her parents are extreme christian fundamentalists who abused and traumatized her. Her attempt to live as a black person is part of how she has tried to distance herself from her horrible parents.

But the schadenfreude is too good.


I can attest to this, to an extent. I know her cousin (married my cousin) and they grew up together, and they are extreme fundamentalists. I don't know if they're horrible people, but even those with good intentions can do more harm than good without realizing it. I know they've been talking about Rachel, and that she did have a rough life, but no one is standing by her because of the lying. It seems like they've practically disowned her (unless she repents, I guess?).


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0_equals_true
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18 Jun 2015, 4:05 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
If i wanted to be sympathetic, I might point out:

Her parents are extreme christian fundamentalists who abused and traumatized her. Her attempt to live as a black person is part of how she has tried to distance herself from her horrible parents.

But the schadenfreude is too good.


Is this true? The problem is there is a lot of hearsay.



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18 Jun 2015, 7:02 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
If i wanted to be sympathetic, I might point out:

Her parents are extreme christian fundamentalists who abused and traumatized her. Her attempt to live as a black person is part of how she has tried to distance herself from her horrible parents.

But the schadenfreude is too good.


Is this true? The problem is there is a lot of hearsay.



There is. But this angle has been corroborated by the existence of a memoir her brother wrote a year ago. On the one hand, he's a bit of an unreliable narrator since this all came out when he was being investigated for sexually abusing his adopted brother (the one Rachel Dolezal got custody of) The trigger for her parents outing her is believed to be this investigation since her history of lies makes any of her testimony worthless. But the book was published a year ago, when she was fully estranged from all of them, so when things she says are also in a book he wrote a year ago, that makes it plausible.

I found all this following a link chain in an article about her. The link chain led ultimately to a website where people in recovery from abusive fundamentalist homeschooling gather.
https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/06/17/heres-what-joshua-dolezal-wrote-about-his-and-rachel-dolezals-christian-fundamentalist-upbringing/


It gives a truly powerful motivation for not only why she would want to distance herself from her parents in such a major way, making it seem like they couldn't have birthed her since they are the wrong race. Some people have speculated that she was jealous of her 4 adopted black brothers and the positive attention they got from her parents and she felt displaced and that's why she did this. I thought that sounded pretty plausible since it could happen in a more typical family that adopted children from other races.

When people of multiple races are siblings, sometimes this transracialism happens (apparently it's a real phenomenon that has been studied but it is mostly of kids who are not white perceiving themselves as white because their adoptive parents and siblings are).

But then I found the homeschooling survivor website and things suddenly looked much uglier than mere sibling jealousy.
Quote:
I have also heard testimonies from numerous homeschool alumni who grew up knowing the Dolezal family that frequent and significant child abuse occurred in the family. The parents allegedly forced both Rachel and her older, biological brother Joshua to beat their younger, adopted siblings with plumbing supply line and two foot long glue sticks, a practice inspired by Michael and Debi Pearl’s book, To Train Up a Child. (Forced sibling-to-sibling corporal punishment is sadly not uncommon in some homeschooling circles.)


So this puts a horrifying spin on the "baboon whip" comment she made in some interview (or maybe one of her pre-scandal tweets). She had said she was beaten with a plumbing line and it was called a baboon whip. That provoked an eye roll. But now it should provoke horror. It was her doing the beating and it was her younger adopted and black brothers and this was apparently a done thing in fundie homeschool households, making older sibs beat younger ones.

This entire sad spectacle may have been her trying to atone for that. It's also possible that her parents did indeed hit her with it too, although that is not specifically in the excerpts from his book. This would also explain why she doubled down on her lies by insisting they are not her parents. I wouldn't want to be related to them either.

It really looks like this whole thing is her attempted escape from her upbringinging in the most profound way possible. She spouted the absolute worst of identity politics (as I wrote in the companion thread in News) and now I understand why. It was all part of her attempt to reach escape velocity from their orbit.



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18 Jun 2015, 7:37 pm

Janissy-

If I had felt any contempt for her before, after reading this litany of horrors, I am just feeling pity for her right now. I can easily see why she'd want to be someone else - anyone else - after growing up in that kind of loony religious background.


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Rollo
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21 Jun 2015, 6:50 pm

Barchan wrote:
AntDog wrote:
The NAACP needs to be disbanded, today it serves no function to society other than to help propel the liberal political correctness agenda. It's days of civil rights are long gone.

Wow. Just... woooow.
The fact that people on a web forum can say stuff like this (and get away with it) just shows how far we still have to go toward fighting casual racism in our society.


Lol! Whenever anyone starts an internet post with "wow, just wow" you just know they're going to be an anti-white, an LGBT activist or some feminist fruitcake.

What would you like to happened to AntDog, Barchan? An FBI investigation perhaps?

Barchan wrote:
A white woman impersonating a black woman to become president of her city's NAACP chapter, just proves how much black people still need advocacy groups. We can talk about dismantling the NAACP when white people stop acting like it's their birthright to trample the racial identity of others.


Boo hoo Barchan. Cry me a river. Non-whites whine about whites "trampling their racial identity" and other "microaggressions" but usually freak out if white people talk about getting away from them. Why aren't all these whining non-whites asking to separate from their "oppressors"?

Barchan wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
Men are persecuted sometimes. That doesn't refute male privilege. That doesn't magically make them "not male".

Stop comparing Rachel Dolezal to transgendered people. It's a false equivalence, for reasons I have already explained.
Modern science acknowledges that there are inherent neurological differences between genders, by which a brain can be described as "male" or "female."
No modern scientist would seriously and credibly propose that there are racial differences in the brain. There's no evidence for it. You can't cut out someone's cerebellum or hippocampus and say "this is a black hippocampus. This is a white cerebellum." This is the kind of thing a Nazi or KKK member would have us believe.


What does the brain have to do with it? Your race is determined by your lineage, and can be assessed with near 100% accuracy by genetic testing. Your sex is determined by your sex chromosomes. A man with a "feminine" brain is just a man with a feminine brain. And Dillogic is right about racial neurological differences.

DRzero wrote:
It's weird how people are defending her with crap about how race is a social construct, etc., etc.


Well I for one was being sarcastic, since certain people like to claim race is a social construct when it suits them. I'm not sure I was expecting people to say "race is a social construct" in this thread and mean it.



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21 Jun 2015, 6:55 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The whole transracial aspect is pretty interesting to me, if race like gender is a social construct then identifying as another race shouldn't be seen as way less legitimate than identifying as another gender. You are what you are physically, you can try surgery to change that but whats in the head is what really matters right? It seems like a lot of "antiracist" SJWs share the obsession with blood quantum as racists do, they all seem to very much believe in the one drop rule and in their world "oppression" is how they gain status in their movement. Collectivizing guilt is a textbook tactic of racists. he idea of racial identity being fluid basically turns the entire concept of race on its head, its not real then and I think that's direction we should go. We don't divide ourselves on eye and hair color right so why skin?

We need to come together as one people, I'm thinking of the old Lincoln quote of "a house divided against itself cannot stand" and there will be no peace as long as continue to divide ourselves by race be it because malicious racism or "antiracism" or whatever, as long as this obsession is alive there will be racial strife. My blood is my blood alone, I don't share any responsibility what someone else did before I was born.


Oh boy ... year after year white conservatives like you moan about "white guilt" propaganda and manufactured race controversies, and yet it never dawns on you that the only way to ensure you have societies free of this crap is racial separation.

SJWs and racists alike are right that race matters. Conservatives will just keep grumbling year after year that it's all "stupid" while scratching their heads about their disappearing freedoms.

Jacoby wrote:


I don't see any use for race in 2015, the fact that racial issues are so relevant today is a pretty sad reflection on our country and our culture and that's coming from all sides. Racism cannot end until we stop dividing ourselves by race or making the distinction, it should be a physical description and that's it. We can't sit around with chips on our shoulders and blame an entire race of people for our problems or past wrongs and then pretend that you're not racist, be mad at the person that specifically did you wrong but blaming some other person because they share the same skin color with that would be racist would it not? They keep us divided with race so we can never turn our attention to the real criminal puppet masters that run this planet.


" They keep us divided with race so we can never turn our attention to the real criminal puppet masters that run this planet."

Lol, you sound like an old-school Marxist. You have it virtually back-to-front. "They" force the different races together because they know that conflict will follow naturally from forced integration. What "they" don't want is geographic racial separation and racially homogenous societies/communities - or racially homogenous white societies/communities in particular. If you want to understand more about why "they" are doing this, it helps to look into the racial backgrounds of some of "these people", but I suppose that wouldn't mean anything to someone who has decided a priori that race doesn't matter.