If it came down to Hillary or Trump, who would you vote for?
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
Well its a given that anyone who advocates the poor be barred from voting via things like only allowing property owners to vote, an idea I've heard tossed around recently, are clear supporters of class warfare.
I've heard those sons-of-b*tches say that, too. I've also heard them say anyone getting government benefits should be barred from voting.
What a bunch of bull...yes lest those on benefits vote to continue them and/or find a more effective system, rather than vote against themselves and have their government aid ripped out from under them with no efficient alternative. Like some of the right wingers advise.
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Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Well its a given that anyone who advocates the poor be barred from voting via things like only allowing property owners to vote, an idea I've heard tossed around recently, are clear supporters of class warfare.
I've heard those sons-of-b*tches say that, too. I've also heard them say anyone getting government benefits should be barred from voting.
What a bunch of bull...yes lest those on benefits vote to continue them and/or find a more effective system, rather than vote against themselves and have their government aid ripped out from under them with no efficient alternative. Like some of the right wingers advise.
Just wait till they have a change of fortune, then see how much they want to be disenfranchised for needing help.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Anyone getting a government paycheck should not vote. They are often a third of the vote.
They also belong to Public Employees Unions. They have separate health care and retirement.
They vote for their own pay raises.
Our form of government was set up by people who rode horses, wrote with quills, and lit with candles.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
They also belong to Public Employees Unions. They have separate health care and retirement.
They vote for their own pay raises.
Our form of government was set up by people who rode horses, wrote with quills, and lit with candles.
I didn't know that getting a government paycheck disqualified you from American citizenship.
You do know that police officers, fire fighters, and the military would be disqualified from voting.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
They also belong to Public Employees Unions. They have separate health care and retirement.
They vote for their own pay raises.
Our form of government was set up by people who rode horses, wrote with quills, and lit with candles.
During the quill and candle days here in Ye olde England the Barons revolted against Bad King John and forced him to take their opinion into consideration in a parliament. later wealthy landowners were also allowed to vote
In 1800, the right to vote was based on wealth and gender (male). Less that 3 adults out of every 100 could vote. Since then, there have been some significant changes to the voting regulations:
1832 Reform Act. Extended the right to vote to certain leaseholders and householders. 5 adults out of every 100 could vote.
1867 Second Reform Act. Further extension of the voting regulations in counties and boroughs. 13 adults out of every 100 could vote, but still based on wealth.
1872 Secret Ballot Act. Introduced voting by secret ballot.
1884 Representation of the People Act. Any male occupying land or property with an annual rateable value of £10 could vote. 24 adutls out of every 100 could vote.
1918 Representation of the People Act. All males over the age of 21 were given the vote. Women over 30 got the vote. 75 adults out of every 100 could vote.
1928 Representation of the People Act. Uniform voting rights were extended to all men and women over the age of 21. 99 adults out of every 100 could vote.
So as far as I can see if this were the UK trump would want to take voting rights back to at least 1832.
US obviously has her own system. nevertheless you cannot exactly call these ideas progressive.
Who is next...... WASPS only?
the guy is an idiot who speaks before he thinks
The value I see with Trump is that I think he's got some good ideas for the economy and taxes, which to me seems to be the priority right now. While I agree much more with the moral and social views of democrats, I think that a lot of them are too focused on this.
The fact that he's such a successful businessman at the very least makes him qualified, I think, to fix the financial issues America is having. I like his idea to do a one-time tax on the top richest people in America, which (supposedly) will raise enough money to eliminate all of the debt. He also has said he wants to simplify the tax system; basically, if you're making less than 30,000 a year, you get taxed 1%, from 30,000 to 100,000 it's 5%, etc. up to 15%. If I was making 10 dollars an hour, I'd get 9.90 instead of the 8 dollars I'd get now (and I'm not even making that much to begin with). That also seems to fix the issue of whether or not we should raise minimum wage, which personally I think raising it would be ineffective in the long-run.
I agree more with Hillary on social and moral issues, but she seems unintelligent to me. I also think that she'll be a lot like Obama, in that she'll talk a whole lot about "change" and not bring about a whole lot of it.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
And I don't understand the people saying they just wouldn't vote. At least vote for SOMEBODY. It doesn't have to be one of the main candidates, but at the very least you should vote for somebody.
Anyway, what I wanted to know was mostly just who people think would be better as president, Hillary or Trump, not necessarily who you would literally vote for. I guess I could have phrased the question a little better. Though it seems very 50/50 anyway, which I guess is to be expected faced with two choices that are pretty much equally bad.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Trump will get the turnout, as nothing but the screw the government, and both political parties, candidate.
His supporters are "Hell Yes!" supporters.
Besides, he has a sound economic platform.
From NAFTA on We The People have been losing our economy and having Wall Street ship it offshore.
We can tax that, and with transport, make Made In America profitable.
More of the same means more lost wars, and another ten trillion in debt.
Trump is the Ego Driven Showman America needs!
I agree with your point about how essential it is to use your vote ... whichever way you choose. i
would even say spoiling your ballot paper is a vote against `the above` at least you have had your say.
However I disagree with your other point...
The fact that he's such a successful businessman at the very least makes him qualified, I think, to fix the financial issues America is having.
While Trump has made a few billion a couple of times, this has essentially been by gambling capital. I would call Warren Buffet a better and more reliable business man not Trump... Trump is totally unstable. Do you want a gambler in the whitehouse?
In 1990, the banking institutions that backed his real estate investments had to bail him out with a $65 million "rescue package
nine months later Trump was nearly $4 billion in debt
He didn't declare personal bankruptcy, (an accountancy trick not prudent business strategy really) although his famous Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, N.J., did have to file for it
Trump's economic troubles continued through the early '90s, while he was personally leveraged to nearly $1 billion
In 2004, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts also filed for bankruptcy. The company was only a small portion of Trump's real estate empire, but he did still have to personally cough up $72 million to keep it afloat
In 2009, the same company (by then renamed Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. [another accountants trick]) filed for bankruptcy again. Yet during all of this, no one ever told Trump, "You're fired!" Probably because no one could
Trump invested roughly $365 million into Trump airlines, within 4 years it was dead.
So I think this myth he is peddling about himself being qualified as a successful businessman is guff. Tony Soprano was also a successful businessman
Opinions opinions opinions....
"The problem with our country is we don't manufacture anything anymore," Donald Trump told Fox News a year ago. "The stuff that's been sent over from China," he complained, "falls apart after a year and a half. It's crap." That very same Donald Trump has his own line of clothing, and it's made in ... China. = hypocrisy & diss`ing China to boot.
Here too is a sample of the exquisite diplomatic skill Trump would bring to bear in foreign policy.... listen to this beautifully crafted policy.
When recently discussing oil prices on air with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, Donald Trump blustered on about the scheming malfeasance of OPEC and the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Trump insisted the U.S. could leverage its military supremacy to persuade OPEC to lower prices. In his words: "I'm going to look 'em in the eye and say, 'Fellas, you'd have your fun. Your fun is over.'" But this rather naive suggestion of bullying one of the U.S.'s most longstanding and essential allies in the Middle East — not to mention the recent customer in a megabillion-dollar U.S. weapons sale that would create tens of thousands of American jobs — was comparatively harmless when set against his next suggestion. Trump bemoaned U.S. costs sustained during its wars in the Middle East and floated the idea of "taking" Iraqi oil. Stephanopoulos countered incredulously, "So, we steal an oil field?" Trump responded, "Excuse me. You're not stealing anything. You're taking — we're reimbursing ourselves." Given how many U.S. leaders have had to stress to their Middle East interlocutors that they're not in it simply for the oil, Trump would be starting off regional relations on pretty slippery ground
All quotes from Time magazine 2011
If he wasn`t so scary he would be an absolute joy to listen to as the biggest airbag on the planet, this guy has no sense of irony whatsoever and is a satirists dream.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
would even say spoiling your ballot paper is a vote against `the above` at least you have had your say.
However I disagree with your other point...
The fact that he's such a successful businessman at the very least makes him qualified, I think, to fix the financial issues America is having.
While Trump has made a few billion a couple of times, this has essentially been by gambling capital. I would call Warren Buffet a better and more reliable business man not Trump... Trump is totally unstable. Do you want a gambler in the whitehouse?
In 1990, the banking institutions that backed his real estate investments had to bail him out with a $65 million "rescue package
nine months later Trump was nearly $4 billion in debt
He didn't declare personal bankruptcy, (an accountancy trick not prudent business strategy really) although his famous Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, N.J., did have to file for it
Trump's economic troubles continued through the early '90s, while he was personally leveraged to nearly $1 billion
In 2004, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts also filed for bankruptcy. The company was only a small portion of Trump's real estate empire, but he did still have to personally cough up $72 million to keep it afloat
In 2009, the same company (by then renamed Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. [another accountants trick]) filed for bankruptcy again. Yet during all of this, no one ever told Trump, "You're fired!" Probably because no one could
Trump invested roughly $365 million into Trump airlines, within 4 years it was dead.
So I think this myth he is peddling about himself being qualified as a successful businessman is guff. Tony Soprano was also a successful businessman
Opinions opinions opinions....
"The problem with our country is we don't manufacture anything anymore," Donald Trump told Fox News a year ago. "The stuff that's been sent over from China," he complained, "falls apart after a year and a half. It's crap." That very same Donald Trump has his own line of clothing, and it's made in ... China. = hypocrisy & diss`ing China to boot.
Here too is a sample of the exquisite diplomatic skill Trump would bring to bear in foreign policy.... listen to this beautifully crafted policy.
When recently discussing oil prices on air with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, Donald Trump blustered on about the scheming malfeasance of OPEC and the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Trump insisted the U.S. could leverage its military supremacy to persuade OPEC to lower prices. In his words: "I'm going to look 'em in the eye and say, 'Fellas, you'd have your fun. Your fun is over.'" But this rather naive suggestion of bullying one of the U.S.'s most longstanding and essential allies in the Middle East — not to mention the recent customer in a megabillion-dollar U.S. weapons sale that would create tens of thousands of American jobs — was comparatively harmless when set against his next suggestion. Trump bemoaned U.S. costs sustained during its wars in the Middle East and floated the idea of "taking" Iraqi oil. Stephanopoulos countered incredulously, "So, we steal an oil field?" Trump responded, "Excuse me. You're not stealing anything. You're taking — we're reimbursing ourselves." Given how many U.S. leaders have had to stress to their Middle East interlocutors that they're not in it simply for the oil, Trump would be starting off regional relations on pretty slippery ground
All quotes from Time magazine 2011
If he wasn`t so scary he would be an absolute joy to listen to as the biggest airbag on the planet, this guy has no sense of irony whatsoever and is a satirists dream.
I'm not extremely knowledgeable on how businesses and businessmen work, and what specific things make them more successful than others, but I thought it was kind of normal to have some failed business endeavors. I think the fact that he was able to rebuild his wealth every time says something good about his abilities. He says he never actually went bankrupt.
This is not to say that I am totally confident that he would be a great or even a good president, I just think he is more intelligent than people give him credit for. He does seem kind of outrageous but I think he makes some good points, and at the very least he is straightforward, which I also respect.
I would much prefer Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately he seems to be the only really good liberal candidate. Hillary and Biden seem very fake, deceptive and stupid to me. Admittedly I haven't read or listened to a whole lot about them, but from what I have researched I get the impression that they are just being paid to say what people want to hear. They talk about the issues but not the solutions.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Last edited by L_Holmes on 24 Sep 2015, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Are you claiming that the price of oil depends on demand alone, and that supply is irrelevant?
The claim that there is any such thing as 'market forces' any more is laughable. With government interference in all aspects of life, the market has a marginal effect on prices, etc.
_________________
When everyone is losing their heads except you, maybe you don't understand the situation.
Are you claiming that the price of oil depends on demand alone, and that supply is irrelevant?
The claim that there is any such thing as 'market forces' any more is laughable. With government interference in all aspects of life, the market has a marginal effect on prices, etc.
So the drop in gas prices recently had absolutely nothing to do with the increased oil production in America recently?
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
I can personally attest to the government screwing up the market. I grew up on a small apple farm in Upstate New York. First they came through and put so many regulations out that small farmers couldn't stay in the market, then they came through and said that the big growers could only harvest 40% of their crop. Now, there are no longer any apple producers in that area, though they can grow as many sh***y apples in Washington State as they want. You can't tell me that people don't want apples.
And, at least from the perspective of California, they are merely getting rid of the summer formulated gas, so they can sell the winter crap.
_________________
When everyone is losing their heads except you, maybe you don't understand the situation.
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