Page 5 of 11 [ 162 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 11  Next

B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

12 Oct 2016, 10:37 pm

By: Loren J. Samons II (these paragraphs by her were printed by Time Magazine):

You can’t have democracy without demagogues.

Democracies breed demagogues.

This has been true since the beginning. Demagoguery emerged in Athens concurrently with the rise of democracy. One might argue that the Greek “tyrant”—a strong man with popular support who often circumvented or dominated the normal avenues of power in an ancient Greek city-state—offers a kind of precursor to the demagogue of democratic Athens. Except the Greek tyrant often relied on brute force as much as rhetoric. And it is the use of persuasive speech and the dependence on an electorate willing to be persuaded that marks the primary tool of the demagogue.

As such, in a democratic environment demagogues simply cannot be avoided. They are one of the natural products of a form of government that depends on elections. The most one can rationally hope for is that a majority of the (participating) electorate will identify the demagogue AND reject his or her message. But history, again, teaches us that such a reaction is unlikely.

In fact, the identification of a “demagogue” turns out, as often as not, to be an act of demagoguery itself, with those occupying each end of the political spectrum leveling the term against leaders springing from, or appealing to, the other side.


I would suggest that there remains one simple test that will allow voters to identify a demagogue: If the would-be leader promises to give, restore, provide, insure, or enhance a country but never asks the citizens to sacrifice, pay, serve, or simply work, then this leader is a potential demagogue.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,210
Location: the island of defective toy santas

12 Oct 2016, 10:47 pm

if TheRump tells crowds, "we're all gonna have to get tougher," does that alter the demagogue quotient any?



B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

12 Oct 2016, 10:55 pm

Nope! I have been smiling today at some old ads, where Trump compares himself to Alexander the Great and Napoleon. What?

Also found some photos of DT "stuffing his face" (he was eating a pizza slice backwards, his nose is almost in it). Triggered a memory for me: didn't he attack John Kasich for swinish eating?



Evam
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 309

13 Oct 2016, 1:51 am

B19 wrote:
By: Loren J. Samons II (these paragraphs by her were printed by Time Magazine):

You can’t have democracy without demagogues.

Democracies breed demagogues.

This has been true since the beginning. Demagoguery emerged in Athens concurrently with the rise of democracy. One might argue that the Greek “tyrant”—a strong man with popular support who often circumvented or dominated the normal avenues of power in an ancient Greek city-state—offers a kind of precursor to the demagogue of democratic Athens. Except the Greek tyrant often relied on brute force as much as rhetoric. And it is the use of persuasive speech and the dependence on an electorate willing to be persuaded that marks the primary tool of the demagogue.

As such, in a democratic environment demagogues simply cannot be avoided. They are one of the natural products of a form of government that depends on elections. The most one can rationally hope for is that a majority of the (participating) electorate will identify the demagogue AND reject his or her message. But history, again, teaches us that such a reaction is unlikely.


I think many demagogues have been rejected by the elactorate, or also held at bay after election by their immediate environment or by public reactions. It is just that people talk much less about it, because the person never acted out his full dictatorial qualities.



auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,210
Location: the island of defective toy santas

13 Oct 2016, 1:55 am

Evam wrote:
I think many demagogues have been rejected by the elactorate, or also held at bay after election by their immediate environment or by public reactions. It is just that people talk much less about it, because the person never acted out his full dictatorial qualities.


the calmer of two candidates usually gets the votes. it has long been thus, here.



envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,226
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria

13 Oct 2016, 11:59 am

I think you folk need to look north of the border at Pierre Trudeau! How many Americans would choose him over either Donald or Hillary? :D


_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?


my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,550
Location: Aux Arcs

13 Oct 2016, 12:33 pm

Dox47 wrote:
As I sit here reading this thread with a loaded .380 in the pocket of my bathrobe, just in case, a lot of the posts here strike me as a tad bit paranoid...

My little .380 is in the drawer by the bed,considering the events here last weekend here I might need to move it to the coffe table.Not being paranoid,being realistic.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

13 Oct 2016, 3:31 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
I think you folk need to look north of the border at Pierre Trudeau! How many Americans would choose him over either Donald or Hillary? :D


He'd get my vote.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,210
Location: the island of defective toy santas

13 Oct 2016, 3:32 pm

(clicky)prescient trump robot seems to predict the future under his presidency
Image
"The roving gangs killing each other in the desert for cans of food love me!"



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

13 Oct 2016, 3:37 pm

auntblabby wrote:
(clicky)prescient trump robot seems to predict the future under his presidency
Image
"The roving gangs killing each other in the desert for cans of food love me!"


That's positively hilarious! :lol: :lol: :lol:


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

13 Oct 2016, 3:58 pm

Australia is the most consistent admirer and ally of the USA, the last to criticise its "best friend" out of all the Five Eye countries. So the passing of this unprecendented motion about Trump as a disgusting slug signals that there may be some basis for my earlier surmise that the Five eyes allies have no interest in collaborating with Trump as leader.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37640145



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

13 Oct 2016, 4:04 pm

B19 wrote:
Australia is the most consistent admirer and ally of the USA, the last to criticise its "best friend" out of all the Five Eye countries. So the passing of this unprecendented motion about Trump as a disgusting slug signals that there may be some basis for my earlier surmise that the Five eyes allies have no interest in collaborating with Trump as leader.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37640145


That fact alone should give Trumps supporters, especially those in government, a moment to reconsider their choice.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,210
Location: the island of defective toy santas

13 Oct 2016, 4:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
B19 wrote:
Australia is the most consistent admirer and ally of the USA, the last to criticise its "best friend" out of all the Five Eye countries. So the passing of this unprecendented motion about Trump as a disgusting slug signals that there may be some basis for my earlier surmise that the Five eyes allies have no interest in collaborating with Trump as leader.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37640145


That fact alone should give Trumps supporters, especially those in government, a moment to reconsider their choice.

they aren't comprehending the big picture. that is not something nativists are known for. should he be elected, we will simply become a pariah nation.



B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

13 Oct 2016, 4:56 pm

New Zealand's Prime Minister John Key has weighed in, describing Trump's 2005 comments as "indefensible", which is diplomatic speak for "he's a lying slug".



B19
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 9,993
Location: New Zealand

13 Oct 2016, 10:24 pm

Former Canadian PM (another eye country) states a dim view of Trump:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... l-predator