This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does no

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GnosticBishop
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07 Dec 2016, 4:40 pm

Ganondox wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

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DL

Your argument is full of holes. Just because you say something is irrefutable doesn't mean it is, but you're right, I can't refute it, because you don't even have enough support for your claim for their to be anything to refute.

You cannot refute it because if you compare God's kill rate to Satan's it becomes obvious who the evil one is.

You did not try to refute because you know you cannot justify your God killing when he could just as easily cure.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 4:42 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Please cite the EXACT Bible verse that states that Jesus said this.

You must think that Jesus, seeing anyone break what he said was a highly important command, would not care or would think the law breaker to be good.

Can you think at all?

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 4:47 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
-- isa 45:7

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live..."
-- Deu 30:19

GnosticBishop wrote:

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

Gnosticism has it's own version of a god, and ultimately claims that mankind is a god.

So, why aren't you held accountable, for the consequences of your own actions or inactions.

I have studied to be a doctor, collect and identify medicinal plants, particularly as they are the source of common medicines and useful, everyday things. I work on new growing methods to expand their range, so there will be plenty.

I am held accountable by those that matter. My fellow man.

If you think there is a supernatural god, then you have to believe he created you the way he wanted you to be.

If you think you deserve punishment for being and doing exactly what you were created to do, then you do not think in a moral way.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 4:53 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

To the best of my understanding, God does exist, according to the doctrine of Lucifer, the "lightbearer."

They say that Jehova, the Judeo Christian God, is the Satanic or dark side, of a twofold godhead, which created the material world as a sort of entrapment.

They deny the sanctity of God, and that he solely has the power of creation, so hope to escape eternal punishment.

If this person is truly a gnostic, he is not being intellectually accountable, for the sayings of his co-religionists. Or, you might have known all this, already.

Let me ask you who you think is more evil.

One with a huge kill rate, or one who almost never kills?

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 4:56 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:

redrobin62 wrote:

Let me guess - If I THINK God exists, then he must? Okay. I THINK there is a million dollars in my bank account. It had better be there by the time I finish posting this entry!

I have no problem in hating the Christian God that Christians are gullible enough to believe in after all the lies that their clergy have fed them over time.

Sure he is imaginary, but if theist are going to love such a prick, I need to get on their page to show why they too should hate such an evil prick.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 5:01 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

You have confused the myths we made up to put against the Christian God with what we actually believe.

Does this sound like we think matter to be evil when clearly we see ourselves as the temple of God?

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Are you mentally rich or are you mentally poor?

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 5:13 pm

Amaltheia wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

Quote:

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

You haven't established that God kills. You've just asserted it.

Yes, people die, but there's no evidence that God specifically killed them.

There is in scriptures and that is what I am using here even as i do not believe in the Christian fantasy.

Have you ever even read the bible? Your statement indicates that you have not.

Let me add to your knowledge base.

https://vimeo.com/7038401

Quote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

I assume the Golden Rule you are referring to is:
So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Matthew 7:12

If that's the case, your argument is based on the assumption that God wants people to cure him. Since, as far as I know, God doesn't get sick and is immortal, I have no idea why God would want that. So, it doesn't follow that by not curing people God is violating the Golden Rule. God may well be treating people exactly as God wishes people to treat Him and thus be abiding by the Golden Rule. There's no way to tell.

Whether God can get mentally sick or not is irrelevant to the golden rule.
God is to take the position when using that rule that he is to assume whatever condition he sees in others for himself.

Quote:

Now, if the Golden Rule was "treat others as they wish you to treat them", then your argument would follow. As it is, though, you've smuggled in an assumption and built your argument on that assumption, making it invalid.

See above.

quote]
Care to recast your argument so as to avoid that smuggled assumption?

[/quote]

No because I dealt with your point above.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 5:17 pm

Ganondox wrote:

AJisHere wrote:

The burden of proof lies on theists, as they are the ones making an extraordinary claim (i.e. a supernatural, omnipotent being is responsible for the universe). It's an unfalsifiable claim though, so it does not even work as a truth claim and cannot be examined in a logical or scientific manner.

Nope.

1. Saying God doesn't exist is as much of a claim as saying he does. To not make a claim is to be agnostic.

Yours is a logical fallacy as it is impossible to prove negative claims.

That is why it is the onus of the one making the positive claim of God existing to make his case.

For any to try to reverse that onus shows intellectual and moral dissonance as it is trying to cover a lie by shifting the onus.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 5:26 pm

Cash__ wrote:

GnosticBishop wrote:

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

Regards
DL

I have never seen God kill anyone. Nor do I know anyone who has ever seen God kill someone. So I don't think that statement is irrefutable. Do you care to provide some evidence of God killing people?

LOL.

Evidence? There has never been any evidence for a God so, no, I have no evidence.

I do have people, theists, who think that scriptures speak the truth and they then have the evidence they need that shows God killing.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 5:58 pm

redrobin62 wrote:

I must say, people who do worship this God sure worship a fairly violent being, not to mention the greatest mass murderer in the HISTORY of mankind. To wit:

Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Everyone, of course, except Noah and his kin, and two of each animal.

Personally, I don't think it's fair to kill millions of innocent children and animals, but who am I to say?

More like, who are you not to point to such and act and call it as you see it, evil.

What is strange is theists giving God a pass for such evil and adoring such a God all the more.

I think that that is quite insane and I have no problem in saying so.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 6:11 pm

marcb0t wrote:

AJisHere wrote:

Believing magical sky beings are responsible for everything is far from rational. Claiming that such a being could exist without cause is not rational.

Believing everything just happened to come about from some random explosion from nothingness, and created ordered systems and planets from all that seems just as irrational, if not even more so.

God, the One I worship, is not a magical sky being. He is an eternal being existing independently from our sky, universe, and the bounds of our spacetime altogether.

Such a being would have mastery of all dimensions of space time. Even the ones we are not able to perceive. It may seem magical to lower creatures as ourselves, but it is quite ordinary from God's perspective.

When you try to understand God from a material and physical level, you are failing to understand the God I worship. Not that it is possible for stupid finite creatures like us to comprehend such an incredible being to any remote totality.

IT is not my burden of proof to prove anything to anyone. If people want to continue in their sin of unbelief, so be it. I will continue to serve and honor Jesus in my everyday conduct and conversation.

But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord .”
Joshua 24:15 NIV

Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
Revelation 22:11 NIV

"Believing everything just happened to come about from some random explosion from nothingness, and created ordered systems and planets from all that seems just as irrational, if not even more so."

Your belief in a God of the Gaps, given all the knowledge that is impossible for you to know, as compared to the scientific God of the Gaps, where they say all the laws of nature before the big bang that cannot be known, says that you position is a lot more irrational than the notion that things came from nothing.

You have to make up your garbage as you go while science says what you say you know cannot be known.

Belief in the supernatural is not in any way rational.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 6:20 pm

marcb0t wrote:

AJisHere wrote:

If you want other people to believe your god exists, yes it is. If not, then it is your own business and there is no need for you to prove anything.

Not really. Plenty of people believe in my God regardless of whether or not I try to prove it. Furthermore, nobody had to prove God to me with their own arguments when I came to believe. The Holy Spirit simply put me through the right circumstance that were needed to cause me to cry out to and seek reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ.

Nobody was able to win me over with some foolish intellectual argument, let's say.

I want people to believe, but I know they won't if the Holy Spirit does not draw their hearts and open their spiritual eyes.

Do you agree with the following which apply to your using Jesus as your scapegoat?

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

As Ingersoll said; 'no man would be fit for heaven who would consent that an innocent person should suffer for his sin.'

Further what are your views on this Bishops words?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9g ... gest-vrecs

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 6:28 pm

schopenhauer with a keyboard wrote:

the problem is that you're presupposing the existence of god.. something that hasn't been justified to my understanding.
if god DOES exist, it is probably one who doesn't meddle in the affair of humans, one who set the ball rolling but then turned his back so to speak.
that's the only kind of god that makes any sense, a deistic one. no i don't subscribe to this, but there are a few decent reasons to think one MAY exist.

The wording was designed to engage believers who, to me, are adoring a genocidal and immoral God.

Those who choose to argue God's existence, a waste of time to me, can do so.

My focus was on the morality that Christians take from the bible while thinking their immoral God to be moral even though scriptures show him killing quite a lot and curing almost never.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 6:31 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

[

So by definition any deity you could imagine would be by definition of being the creator of the Universe be in constant violation of the "Golden Rule" by being a mass murderer.

Hence the irrefutable nature of the O.P.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 6:38 pm

Ganondox wrote:

[

Except there is nothing in the golden rule about murder.

Huh? I think there is as it covers all such situations.

Should God do "murder" unto others, when God, whether he can die or not, would not want himself "murdered"?

You can replace murdered above with just about anything evil as well as most good things.

That is why such reciprocity rules are so important and widespread.

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DL

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07 Dec 2016, 6:43 pm

Grischa wrote:

This topic is really difficult
Does anyone deserve to die? ...................no
Do anyone deserve to live, is that "a right", anything we could claim?................... also no

Still, at some moments, it feels that times stops, that God stops Time, that He takes that effort to stop Time, quite an effort it is, so that one moment, we can escape from the business of everyday life, and have a look at heaven
Like during Christmas, that's coming soon
I'm just a damn old believer, despite the Gnosticists and Atheists on this forum
Looking forward for Christmas

Belief in a good God is, if not warranted, is at least laudable. Belief and adoration of an evil genocidal son murdering God is not.

I put a link on substitutionary atonement above. Please have a look and opine on the moral implications of any Christian using Jesus as their scapegoat savior.

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DL

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