On punching Nazis

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Your posts suggest otherwise.



You're missing my point, which is that it's not inconceivable that such a society could arise, and that in light of that, it's probably a good idea to very strongly create and enforce a norm that no one is to be harmed for advocating ideas, no matter how odious we may find them. I also don't appreciate the personal insults.

Another famous cis white male once used his position of power and privilege to express a possibly relevant thought:

The idea maps out an approach that has been fairly important in the development of civilization.

The alternatives are probably more efficient.

You could have just one choice, the right choice, at election time.

You could hear just the prosecution in court.

The police could solve cases very quickly by taking statements from a single witness.

And so on.

If you want to say "but this should only apply to ideas that I like" then you are already on the road to single party elections and trials without a defense.

The Nazi vision is vile filth. It needs to be fought in every way. Punching people in the face for expressing their thoughts is more like joining that filthy vision than fighting it.

Do you guys really think that T1J and I favor punching Nazis?

Have you guys ever heard of temptation? Throughout this whole thread I've made clear that I am tempted to punch Nazis and cheer when they are. Everyone is tempted by something at some point or another. Anyone who tells you, Not me, I'm never tempted by anything, is lying! But when thinking about it, I realize it's wrong to do punch Nazis except in self-defense/defense of others.

And why am I so tempted? It's because to me, Nazis are evil, plain and simple. They are the enemies of much what I stand for. They desire to destroy and murder, and they've already done quite a bit of that. So naturally, I see this as a matter of justice. I know vengeance is wrong, and violence should only be used when necessary to prevent harm (self-defense, defense of others) and not for revenge. So I don't give in to my temptation.

T1J also made this clear in his video.

Now do you guys get what we're talking about?

Relax. Relax. We're just having a conversation here.

I get you. I feel the same way. I loved that scene in Blues Brothers, too.


But I am not OK with punching people in the face, unless they touch you first. If one of those White Nationalist types grabs you or pushes, by all means, clock him--but don't just sucker punch a guy for spewing garbage.

Edited to add: It's important to recognize the difference between fantasy and reality. The scene in the Blues Brothers was fantasy. The punch in the face was real.

I agree with everything you say with the addendum, you can also defend others if they touch or start physically hurting someone else. The European Theater in World War II was essentially an example of that on a gigantic scale.

Agreed.

I did not really expect an answer from anyone, or for that matter that you would give an answer that would contradict what you already have said in this tread. However I suspect that some that approve punching mister Spencer would not approve punching the person I mentioned.

I can see where you're coming from, and I understand the value of free speech.

But the German Nazis didn't go around physically assaulting people. They started out as a peaceful grassroots worker's movement---- then before anyone even knew what was happening, the Reichstag was in flames and the Nazis were patrolling the streets with sub-machineguns and huge wooden clubs.

Just ask any Holocaust survivor; they all probably wish they had punched a Nazi when they had the chance.

You can't wait for a Nazi to throw the first punch, because that's simply not how they operate. Nazis don't punch up. They put up a facade of being "peaceful" until they're in power, then they punch down.

A Jewish friend of mine put it this way: "Nazis don't throw the first punch. They burn the first building."

This is why I can't get upset about a Neo-Nazi getting his clock cleaned.

Nope...the Nazis weren't non-violent, even at the beginning.

There was a paramilitary organization known as the "SA." They were the means by which the Nazis intimidated opponents. The used to beat people up in the streets randomly, especially when they marched.

Ironically Hitler decided to disband the SA upon ascending to power. He even had its leader, Ernst Rohm, killed. The SS took over many of the functions of the SA.

I dunno about that; the Nazis were pretty violent throughout their rise to power. The Weimar Republic was a very violent unstable place so there was a level of that all across the spectrum I'm sure as the Communists were just as threatening which the Nazis were able to take advantage of. The SA 'Stormtroopers' were thugs who beat up anybody that got in their way and would get in brawls everywhere they went, what do you think was happening in those beer halls? I would never call them at any point a peaceful protest movement, they didn't start out advocating mass murder I suppose but that's where it went. Antisemitism wasn't created by the Nazis in Germany FWIW, go read what Martin Luther said about the jews and you'll be shocked at what you read.

Legally that is the felony of battery, and you could do some time in the slammer for something like that.

It is against the law to punch someone except in self defense.

Actually the laws on self-defense vary from one state to another, but the general rule in most cases is A) whether the defendant had a reasonable fear for her safety and B) whether defendant used excessive force.

If someone is aggressively posturing, yelling, following you, and gets within punching range, very few juries are going to blame you for throwing the first punch. They're basically just playing a high-stakes game of chicken, and you don't want to be the one who gets plucked.

Now, I don't throw blows, since I've found that pepper spray is much more effective for dealing with these types, but the point remains; never let anyone throw the first punch.

National Socialists have all the rights which the rest of us have. If it is acceptable to go for the first strike against them when they are out of power, then it is probable that they will give the "first strikers" their change when, and if, they (NS) return to power. What goes around comes around. Welcome to the real world.

By the way, many out there in the real world apparently believe that the country--even the world--need a man like AH, not identical to, but like him. These people of all races believe that all races would benefit.

I believe that it is noteworthy that according to the Traudl Junge diaries and one other source that Hitler, in the last days in the bunker, prophesied that "in a hundred years a movement based on the principles of National Socialism would sweep the world with the force of a religion."

Please don't get me wrong. I am a loyal Republican American.

Opinions?

I hope Nazi ideology won't sweep through the world, but as of late, things I don't want to happen do happen.

Those people are wrong and dangerous. If they every get to a large enough minority that they start to pose a threat of their preferred method of using murder and terrorism to gain power, they need bullets in the face, not punches.

But it's highly unlikely they will ever be anything but a small fringe outside of their ideological homelands, because they always start getting violent and inviting a violent response long before there are enough of them to threaten the general peace.

But no one should deceive themselves that such people are anything but inimical foes of the fundamental principles on which Western democracy is based. They can be tolerated only so far, just as Islamists and others whose ideology is fundamentally opposed to democracy can be tolerated only to the degree that they don't threaten the freedom of others.

OK. Please give some examples of why Spencer deserved to be punched? Some of his actions perhaps? To me the only person acting like a Nazi is the thug who threw the punch.