Why aren't we allowed to preach about homosexuality?

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leejosepho
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29 Jul 2017, 8:33 am

beady wrote:
Why did Jesus disagree with the old testament...?

He did not. He only disagreed with the religious leaders of the day.

beady wrote:
...where does Jesus say prophets or priests shouldn't marry?

He does not.

beady wrote:
And where is the original Bible? I guess it's written in Hebrew...?

Yes, and you might find some insight here:
https://store.levitt.com/BJR
https://www.nehemiaswall.com/prophet-pearls
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+bible+jesus+read

beady wrote:
If Jesus/God is making a new or return trip, which religion is he gonna join?

None of them.

beady wrote:
What is he going to think about how those religions that "love" him don't seem to love each other?

Not much.


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adifferentname
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29 Jul 2017, 8:35 am

beady wrote:
And where is the original Bible? I guess it's written in Hebrew or greek? I'd like to see some very unbiased person translate that today. And when exactly was it written and gathered into a book? Hundreds of years after the action? That mightily affects the interpretation.


Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.

There have also been books excised from the Bible by the Vatican down the centuries. As Bill Hicks put it "I think what God meant to say..."



Chichikov
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29 Jul 2017, 8:36 am

0_equals_true wrote:
I'm no defender of the Quran and it is explicit in the sense it less like fables and more like direct incitement, but you come across as if you haven't read the Old Testament objectively. It is every bit as violent and despicable in values as the Quran.


Is it? It instructs people to kill others as a tenet of the faith? If someone was to read The Bible that would be their takeaway message?



DarthMetaKnight
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29 Jul 2017, 8:49 am

Chichikov wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
I'm no defender of the Quran and it is explicit in the sense it less like fables and more like direct incitement, but you come across as if you haven't read the Old Testament objectively. It is every bit as violent and despicable in values as the Quran.


Is it? It instructs people to kill others as a tenet of the faith? If someone was to read The Bible that would be their takeaway message?


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Notice how you can be killed for working on the Sabbath.


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DarthMetaKnight
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29 Jul 2017, 9:04 am

There are some good things in the Bible, but you never see Christians mention them.

For example, capitalism is clearly a violation of everything that Jesus stood for ... and yet the vast majority of Christians support capitalism.


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Chichikov
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29 Jul 2017, 9:09 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Chichikov wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
I'm no defender of the Quran and it is explicit in the sense it less like fables and more like direct incitement, but you come across as if you haven't read the Old Testament objectively. It is every bit as violent and despicable in values as the Quran.


Is it? It instructs people to kill others as a tenet of the faith? If someone was to read The Bible that would be their takeaway message?


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Notice how you can be killed for working on the Sabbath.


No-one is denying there is violence in The Bible, that's a straw-man argument. Where does it instruct followers of the faith that they have to be violent and to kill others? The Koran says things like

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement."

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

"Kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And disbelief is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more disbelief and worship is for Allah alone."

Compare that to some of the examples from your link;

"Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy"

That's just something violent that happened. Cain killed due to jealousy, but is the message here that if you are jealous you kill those you are jealous of? Is that what The Bible is teaching? To kill people you are jealous of? Of course not, the story of Cain is a cautionary one, not a direct instruction to kill like the Koran has.

"'I will destroy ... both man and beast.'
God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all."

Yeah, God is vengeful in the OT, no big surprises there, he caused floods because he was unhappy with how man was living. But is the message here to drown people you are not happy with? No. Again that was just something violent that happened in The Bible, it's not a direct instruction to cause violence. That's the difference.



Misslizard
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29 Jul 2017, 9:23 am

The "heathens" are constantly smited by the "believers" in the OT.Bears even came out of the woods and ate kids that mocked that cross old bald prophet.Its chock full of violence.Tent stake driven thru a head,old painted up floozzy tossed off a balcony for dogs to eat,etc...


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kraftiekortie
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29 Jul 2017, 9:29 am

The Koran was reflective of its times, I believe. They were probably more unsettled, in general, than during Jesus' day. The Roman Empire, despite its faults, did induce a decent amount of relative stability at its height.

In pre-Islamic days, the Arabian Peninsula (like other places at that time) were extremely violent, tribal places.

Mohammed's religion offered a more "peaceful" alternative (yes, "peaceful" in a relative sense). There was more structure under the Caliphs than previously.



DarthMetaKnight
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29 Jul 2017, 10:00 am

LOL

One minute, Christians talk tough. "Real men love Jesus! Christians are real Americans! RAAAWR!"
The next minute ... "BAAAWWWWWWWWWWW! Atheists are mean! Stop triggering me!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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kraftiekortie
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29 Jul 2017, 10:09 am

I always say: I have "faith" in atheism, just like you have "faith" in God.

I really can't see myself getting romantic with a guy---but that's just me.

As long as some guy is not persistent with me in a flirtatious sort of way, I get along with gay people.

It goes way too far to think of homosexuality as something worthy of "eternal damnation."



funeralxempire
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29 Jul 2017, 10:15 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
LOL

One minute, Christians talk tough. "Real men love Jesus! Christians are real Americans! RAAAWR!"
The next minute ... "BAAAWWWWWWWWWWW! Atheists are mean! Stop triggering me!"

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Leave the snowflakes alone, they're used to everywhere being their safespace and they're not adapting very well to losing their monopoly on politcal correctness. :wink:


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naturalplastic
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29 Jul 2017, 10:33 am

I am for freedom of speech.

And freedom of association.

Americans should continue to have the freedom to join the Nazi Party and wave swastika flags.
But I don't fault modern Germany for outlawing the Nazi party and its emblem.

Americans should have the freedom to preach against homosexuality. Not saying that that is as bad as promoting Nazism, but it is controversial. But though half population doesn't like gay bashing its still freedom of speech.

But if Canada slaps you on the wrist for preaching against homosexuality that's Canada's business. Its not like Canada's persecuting Christians, and feeding them to lions. Its not even McCarthyism (have you now, or have you ever preached against homosexuality?). That little bit of a curb on the freedom of speech by preachers in another country just doesn't get any dander up in me.

Sorry.



funeralxempire
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29 Jul 2017, 10:46 am

naturalplastic wrote:
I am for freedom of speech.

And freedom of association.

Americans should continue to have the freedom to join the Nazi Party and wave swastika flags.
But I don't fault modern Germany for outlawing the Nazi party and its emblem.

Americans should have the freedom to preach against homosexuality. Not saying that that is as bad as promoting Nazism, but it is controversial. But though half population doesn't like gay bashing its still freedom of speech.

But if Canada slaps you on the wrist for preaching against homosexuality that's Canada's business. Its not like Canada's persecuting Christians, and feeding them to lions. Its not even McCarthyism (have you now, or have you ever preached against homosexuality?). That little bit of a curb on the freedom of speech by preachers in another country just doesn't get any dander up in me.

Sorry.



Quote:
Sections 318, 319, and 320 of the Code forbid hate propaganda. "Hate propaganda" means "any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319."

Section 318 prescribes imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years for anyone who advocates genocide. The Code defines genocide as the destruction of an "identifiable group." The Code defines an "identifiable group" as "any section of the public distinguished by colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation."

Section 319 prescribes penalties from a fine to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years for anyone who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace.

Under section 319, an accused is not guilty:
(a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;
(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;
(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or
(d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada.

Section 320 allows a judge to confiscate publications which appear to be hate propaganda.


This link has more details on the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission v Whatcott ruling. The Court held that, although Bible passages, biblical beliefs and the principles derived from those beliefs can be legally and reasonably advanced in public discourse, extreme manifestations of the emotion described by the words "detestation" and "vilification" cannot be.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


jrjones9933
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29 Jul 2017, 10:52 am

Some Christians begin with the premise that Jesus would not disagree with anything in the Old Testament. However, taking the entire bible literally creates a lot of contradictions. Specifically, comparing the Gospels with Leviticus leads to contradictory directions from God. Some people feel like God wanted to try a new direction with the later instructions, but other people want to keep regulating the behavior of others by using violence rather than demonstrating better behavior by using love. They will do logical backflips to argue that Jesus confirmed all of Leviticus's prescriptions, when he clearly did not.

You aren't, or shouldn't, be allowed to characterize all the individual members of any group as evil on this forum. You can probably find a christian forum where the mods will allow it, or you can go and preach on 4Chan. They clearly need it more than we do, here.

Another option would be to go and preach to moderate christians about how their tolerance and love are evil. Please report back on how that goes. :lol:


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Chichikov
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29 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

Oh I see, you can't prove your actual argument but rather than just admitting that maybe you were wrong you're trying to derail the thread. No less than I suspected to be honest.



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29 Jul 2017, 12:58 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
FACT: Penguins practice homosexuality and necrophilia.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/penguins-graphic-sex-acts-shocked-antarctic-explorer-ashamed-reveal-article-1.1093723

This conclusively PROVES that there is no god.
I win. Debate over.

Or if there is a God,and he created everything,and said it was all good,then he must be ok with necro gay penguins.
On the seventh day he rested,had a cold one,and watched the Penguins cavorting.


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