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Is feminism good
Poll ended at 26 Oct 2019, 2:31 am
Good 55%  55%  [ 21 ]
Bad 34%  34%  [ 13 ]
Unsure 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 38

kraftiekortie
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08 Nov 2018, 6:25 pm

I don't see anything wrong with "feminism," per se. The concept of it.

What bothers me is "Third-Wave Feminism."



Mona Pereth
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08 Nov 2018, 8:19 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with "feminism," per se. The concept of it.

What bothers me is "Third-Wave Feminism."

I would hesitate to generalize about feminist "waves." Within each "wave" there are fanatics, moderates, and everything in between. See The waves of feminism, and why people keep fighting over them, explained by Constance Grady, Vox, Jul 20, 2018.

I would call myself a moderate feminist, a little too young to be considered second wave, but a little too old to be considered third wave.


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kraftiekortie
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08 Nov 2018, 8:22 pm

Yes, I am generalizing.

I'm not talking about the people, really. I'm talking more about the ideas.

I've met some very nice people who are "third wave" feminists.

John McCain was a conservative----and many of his ideas did not ring a bell with me--but he had class.



Mona Pereth
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08 Nov 2018, 8:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, I am generalizing.

I'm not talking about the people, really. I'm talking more about the ideas.

There is also a variety of IDEAS within each "wave." When I said I would hesitate to generalize about each "wave," I was thinking primarily about the ideas, not just the personalities.


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kraftiekortie
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08 Nov 2018, 8:31 pm

Sure, there are good ideas in "third-wave" feminism.

I guess "intersectionality" is true is some instances....but I just don't like to think that way. I like to think more optimistically.



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09 Nov 2018, 4:48 am

I have an impression that the third-wave feminism is ideologically so broad and diffused that anyone having some pronounced opinion about women in the society could be named a third-wave feminist, unless they promoted systematic submissiveness.


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Mona Pereth
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09 Nov 2018, 6:29 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Sure, there are good ideas in "third-wave" feminism.

I guess "intersectionality" is true is some instances....but I just don't like to think that way. I like to think more optimistically.


Intersectionality is something that all civil rights movements need to concern themselves with.

For example, the autistic rights movement (e.g. ASAN) works in alliance with the larger disability rights movement. (It is too small to accomplish much if anything on its own, without such an alliance.) Hence, groups like ASAN need to concern themselves not only with the rights of autistic people per se, but also with the rights of autistic people who have other disabilities too. And they need to concern themselves not just with the situation of middle-class-and-up white autistic people, but also with the somewhat different situation of poor autistic people (who are less likely to be diagnosed, for example), and the situation of autistic people of color (also less likely to be diagnosed, and more likely to run into problems with police).


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Hollywood_Guy
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09 Nov 2018, 8:55 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with "feminism," per se. The concept of it.

What bothers me is "Third-Wave Feminism."

I would hesitate to generalize about feminist "waves." Within each "wave" there are fanatics, moderates, and everything in between. See The waves of feminism, and why people keep fighting over them, explained by Constance Grady, Vox, Jul 20, 2018.

I would call myself a moderate feminist, a little too young to be considered second wave, but a little too old to be considered third wave.


Here's why:

"Third-wave" of feminism = the difference is that the fanatical fringe parts are now the mainstream of the movement itself. It's true that the 70s "second-wave" had some radical elements too.



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09 Nov 2018, 11:40 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Here's why:

"Third-wave" of feminism = the difference is that the fanatical fringe parts are now the mainstream of the movement itself. It's true that the 70s "second-wave" had some radical elements too.

Hmm, I wouldn't say that the fanatical fringe parts are now the mainstream, but they do have more of a platform now, thanks to the Internet.

YMMV depending on exactly which sets of ideas you are classifying as fanatical fringe.


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RetroGamer87
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10 Nov 2018, 4:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Sure, there are good ideas in "third-wave" feminism.

I guess "intersectionality" is true is some instances....but I just don't like to think that way. I like to think more optimistically.

I'd like intersectionality better if they had more focus on the lower class as one of the oppressed groups.


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Mona Pereth
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10 Nov 2018, 3:25 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I'd like intersectionality better if they had more focus on the lower class as one of the oppressed groups.


I agree, there needs to be more focus on poor people. Problem is, self-organizing by poor people is tough, because poor people by definition are lacking in resources, including any and all resources needed to organize.


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Aspie19828
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11 Nov 2018, 5:49 am

All feminist equalities are chosen in a way that they created inequality for men on another variable usually hidden behind the government. Feminist act systematically to replace the father in the family with his resources through the government rather than having any right to one themselves. This puts men in a state in which they are competing with their own resources been which the harder they work the more is drained from them because it any demonstration of higher achievement is framed of course as oppression of women. Men pay the majority of taxes within a feminist society. Growing numbers of single mothers living off welfare and men must pay the tax bill. Men are regularly denied access to their children and must pay ongoing child support and spouse support.



Aspie19828
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11 Nov 2018, 11:39 pm

Under Feminism, governments and laws have been established to allow women to call all the shots and hold power in regards to dating and relationships due to female choice. Men are just slaves under a Feminist society regardless if they are in relationships or not. MeToo movement has made it impossible for men the female accusers are making claims with evidence/facts and lots of innocent men's Feminist government and media keep pushing the poor little damsel in distress female victim line and demonises the accused men. The MeToo Movement is nothing more than a modern day witch hunt that primarily targets wealthy successful men with high status. High profile men have been destroyed by MeToo Movement regardless if the females claims are true or not!

MGTOW is a counter movement to the MeToo movement men are now withdrawing from dating and refusing to hire women that could make false claims to destroy their male bases. More male workers are swapping jobs to work in male only fields that because it is too much effort. MGTOW = Men Got Their Own Way or Men Guard Their Own Wallets! MGTOW is dismissed by feminists as a misogynist movement that hates women but the men are taking preventative measures to protect their own interests from women.

The economy has changed rapidly over time more men are losing their jobs due to automation and improvements in technology. Increased migration is driving down wages. More men end up unemployed and with no/low skills it is hard to get back into the workforce. Females work in legal/government, office administration, education and health services where jobs are protected. No wonder there is a man drought, there are fewer men with secure stable jobs that earn enough money. Women do not like to date or marry men that earn less money than them. Being a house husband is not attractive! A man who earns less than a women is regarded as a loser.



karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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12 Nov 2018, 2:42 am

Aspie19828 wrote:
Men are just slaves under a Feminist society regardless if they are in relationships or not.


This is just adorably hyperbolic. Precious! :heart:



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12 Nov 2018, 10:29 am

Modern Feminists make me want to slap them, but I actually admire real women who are strong and smart and work hard to overcome life's struggles. Like the kind of women who are single mothers raising their kids all by themselves because their men abandoned them and they still do a good job with their kids despite the fact that society looks down on single mothers. Or the kind of women who don't give into that "every woman needs to be married and have a baby" mentality and they decide to put their needs first and not settle down and have a family just because society expects that out of them. The kind of women who have careers and enjoy living for themselves and not somebody else.

I think women can be amazing and always have been. 8)



XFilesGeek
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13 Nov 2018, 1:36 pm

Aspie19828 wrote:
Under Feminism, governments and laws have been established to allow women to call all the shots and hold power in regards to dating and relationships due to female choice. Men are just slaves under a Feminist society regardless if they are in relationships or not. MeToo movement has made it impossible for men the female accusers are making claims with evidence/facts and lots of innocent men's Feminist government and media keep pushing the poor little damsel in distress female victim line and demonises the accused men. The MeToo Movement is nothing more than a modern day witch hunt that primarily targets wealthy successful men with high status. High profile men have been destroyed by MeToo Movement regardless if the females claims are true or not!

MGTOW is a counter movement to the MeToo movement men are now withdrawing from dating and refusing to hire women that could make false claims to destroy their male bases. More male workers are swapping jobs to work in male only fields that because it is too much effort. MGTOW = Men Got Their Own Way or Men Guard Their Own Wallets! MGTOW is dismissed by feminists as a misogynist movement that hates women but the men are taking preventative measures to protect their own interests from women.

The economy has changed rapidly over time more men are losing their jobs due to automation and improvements in technology. Increased migration is driving down wages. More men end up unemployed and with no/low skills it is hard to get back into the workforce. Females work in legal/government, office administration, education and health services where jobs are protected. No wonder there is a man drought, there are fewer men with secure stable jobs that earn enough money. Women do not like to date or marry men that earn less money than them. Being a house husband is not attractive! A man who earns less than a women is regarded as a loser.


:roll:


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