Obama still hasn't proven his citizenship

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sinsboldly
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01 Mar 2009, 4:43 pm

Nutterbug wrote:

sinsboldly wrote:

Nutterbug wrote:

AlexPlank'sRules wrote:

3. Other inappropriate content and behavior prohibited on Wrong Planet:
anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.

ie. All controversial topics.

no, this is about heckling or hazing or teasing or taunting or denigrating. Getting on someones nerve and drilling down. Discussion about a topic is one thing, but trying to make someone feel bad because they have their belief is causing conflict.

That's called debate.

debate is when you can cream the opposition with their own facts about the subject, you are confusing ad hominem attacks with superior knowledge

Merle

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Nutterbug
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01 Mar 2009, 4:48 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

Nutterbug wrote:

sinsboldly wrote:

Nutterbug wrote:

AlexPlank'sRules wrote:

3. Other inappropriate content and behavior prohibited on Wrong Planet:
anything else that purposely causes conflict with other members.

ie. All controversial topics.

That's called debate.

debate is when you can cream the opposition with their own facts about the subject, you are confusing ad hominem attacks with superior knowledge

How about making them feel stupid through their own words and logic, perhaps embellished with a little cheek and sarcasm?

DeaconBlues
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02 Mar 2009, 2:30 am

Nutterbug, the point of debate is not to "make [someone] feel stupid"; it is to persuade others to one's own point of view. Belittling one's opponent will merely strengthen them in their own place, no matter how ridiculous and easily-disproved it may be.

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Nutterbug
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02 Mar 2009, 4:24 am

DeaconBlues wrote:

The idea is to make them look faulty and stupid in front of the audience, who could be swayed to go with the stronger side.

sinsboldly
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02 Mar 2009, 10:37 am

Nutterbug wrote:

DeaconBlues wrote:

The idea is to make them look faulty and stupid in front of the audience, who could be swayed to go with the stronger side.

Is that what attracts you? Smugness and arrogance? Is that who you wish to follow and give your time and attention to? Are those who guffaw and point and haze and bully your heroes?

really?

Merle

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twoshots
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02 Mar 2009, 10:42 am

DeaconBlues wrote:

Nutterbug, the point of debate is not to "make [someone] feel stupid"; it is to persuade others to one's own point of view. Belittling one's opponent will merely strengthen them in their own place, no matter how ridiculous and easily-disproved it may be.

I've participated in enough debates to know that's futile.

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02 Mar 2009, 10:56 am

Persistence is futile.

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02 Mar 2009, 5:01 pm

sinsboldly wrote:

Nutterbug wrote:

DeaconBlues wrote:

The idea is to make them look faulty and stupid in front of the audience, who could be swayed to go with the stronger side.

Isn't debate a win-lose game? And like any other game, isn't offense the best defense?

Isn't a little skin a requirement for entering the debating arena?

The_Cucumber
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02 Mar 2009, 6:00 pm

In my opinion the entire debate on Obama's citizenship is rather silly. Do you really honestly think that there was not a full background check on Obama, including establishing his natural birth status, the instant he announced his candidacy? My brother recently had to submit to a background check for a job that pays less than 10$ an hour! Do you honestly think the government just "took his word for it" for the most powerful job in the country (and arguably the entire world)?

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AspE
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02 Mar 2009, 6:18 pm

You gotta love Republicans, they don't care how low they have to go if there is the smallest possibility of winning on a technicality. Obama was sworn in already, that makes him the president.

DeaconBlues
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02 Mar 2009, 7:52 pm

No and no, Nutterbug. Debate is a series of arguments intended to demonstrate a proposition. Your opponent is not "defeated" - either he is persuaded, or your argument is ineffective. If your argument is ineffective, raising your voice and insulting your opponent does not make it any more useful. I thought that was one of the primary lessons of the past eight years...

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Nutterbug
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02 Mar 2009, 8:23 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:

Nobody said anything about raising your voice and insulting your opponent. It's more about wrapping up your opponent with his own words and faulty logic.

And nobody ever expects to sway the opponent in a debate. That's something that just won't happen. It's more about appealing to the audience.

sinsboldly
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02 Mar 2009, 8:24 pm

AspE wrote:

You gotta love Republicans, they don't care how low they have to go if there is the smallest possibility of winning on a technicality. Obama was sworn in already, that makes him the president.

although I did hear it mentioned as a technicality, Itzhak Perlman might just be the president because he was playing first fiddle 'on' at 12 noon exactly. :roll:

Merle

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Fnord
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02 Mar 2009, 8:27 pm

First Bill Clinton, now Itzhak Perlman ... that's all we need ... more sax and violins in the White House.

twoshots
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02 Mar 2009, 8:29 pm

Nutterbug wrote:

And nobody ever expects to sway the opponent in a debate. That's something that just won't happen. It's more about appealing to the audience.

Yep that 'bout sums it up. Rare is the person who's rational, disinterested and interesting.

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sinsboldly
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02 Mar 2009, 8:35 pm

Fnord wrote:

First Bill Clinton, now Itzhak Perlman ... that's all we need ... more sax and violins in the White House.

you might be the only person to understand my avatar.

Merle

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