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Joker
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30 Mar 2012, 2:35 pm

Tequila wrote:
TM wrote:
I love anecdotal evidence, and this is not true for Norway. Yet, regardless of the state of gender equality here, women are demanding that they be compensated for their choices and priorities.


Yup. I agree with much of what you say.


As I have stated thats not the case in America where women make less money then men doing the same job as men ect.



androbot2084
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30 Mar 2012, 3:14 pm

Feminism is also an inherently environmental movement.



androbot2084
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30 Mar 2012, 3:15 pm

Leaders of the feminist movement state that woman are superior moral beings.



Joker
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30 Mar 2012, 3:20 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Leaders of the feminist movement state that woman are superior moral beings.


:roll: proove it



30 Mar 2012, 3:23 pm

Joker wrote:
Poverty and religion don't have as much motivation to make people breed their are a lot of people in this world addicted to sex and their need to breed is based on carnal lust sex becomes like a drug to them.


Well here in the US and other affluent, post-industrial nations they certainly DO. Because people who are addicted to sex, aren't desperately poor, and have no religious objections, tend to use birth control(and abortion). Here in America, the only people with money who still have big families are the ones who belong to religions where birth control is considered immoral: Like catholics, mormons, many evangelicals, orthodox jews, and of course muslims. This is why european muslims immigrants are the ones doing must of the breeding in such nations.



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30 Mar 2012, 3:24 pm

Margaret Fuller considered the superior moral nature of a woman as a rational to allow women to vote.



EXPECIALLY
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30 Mar 2012, 3:26 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Here are the facts on equal rights in Norway:

- Men and Women get higher education in roughly equal amounts, however women choose professions that pay less.

- Women work a lot more part time than men. 40% of women work part time and 14% of men.

- 89.3% of children ages 1 - 5 attend kindergarten, yet this has not resulted in more women working.

Both genders should have equal opportunities, but one gender should not be compensated because they elect to work less, stay home after having a child longer despite that child being in kindergarten or pick professions that they are perfectly aware pay less than other professions. Equal opportunities and equal responsibilities for choices should be the mantra of any reasonable person.


My mother and former step dad worked at the same place had the same job but some how my former step dad was payed more then my mother though they had the same job.

Also when my brother and his former girlfrienf had a child together my brother quit his job to assist his girlfriend at the time in taking care of his daughter in the south most men tend to do that for the girl they love he took care of her and his daughter even if wome choose to work for a job that pays less some men that do the same job will still make more money.


I love anecdotal evidence, and this is not true for Norway. Yet, regardless of the state of gender equality here, women are demanding that they be compensated for their choices and priorities.


I wouldn't call my statement evidence but I do not that things are a lot diffrent in Norway then in America :wink:


The reason why I prefer using Norway as an example is that it is statistically and legally the most gender equal country in the world. In the country, "feminists" still spend time complaining that women are paid less (despite it being due to the choices women make). They still complain that women are underrepresented, despite women being the leaders of the majority of the political parties. They still complain about being underrepresented on the boards of companies, despite the fact that there is a large lack of women with the equivalent qualifications and work experience of the men on the board.

I have more examples, but the ones above alone allow me to form the conclusion that there are two groups of women.

There is the group that women like Indira Gandhi, Christine Legarde and countless other women in high positions of great accomplishment belong to, that is willing to work as hard as men, as much as man and forsake as much as men in order to obtain the same success as men.

Then there is the group that wants to have what the above group and quite a few men have, but are unwilling to make the required hard choices.

Just today I read an article on how women are a very small minority of contributions to wikipedia, as a result a representative said that they should try to accommodate women more, to entice them to partake in editing and writing articles. However, I subscribe to the belief that men and women are creatures with a degree of free will and a woman who wants to spend her time editing or writing wikipedia articles will.

I often say that believers have so little faith in the god they believe in and to be honest it seems to me that feminists have little faith in their own gender.


I've always felt that many feminists are drawn to the movement because they have little faith in themselves and project that on their entire gender.

*FELT*, feminists. Please don't ask me me for proof and related statistics regarding my own feelings.

Anyway, I just think it's cool that you can set women apart from feminists as a whole and don't think of all of us this way. I do the same for men, that's why the whole debate is meaningless to me. Many men and women exist outside of the feminist V patriarchy debate. I didn't want to PM you because I don't know you and that would be weird.


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Last edited by EXPECIALLY on 30 Mar 2012, 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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30 Mar 2012, 3:28 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Margaret Fuller considered the superior moral nature of a woman as a rational to allow women to vote.


That doesn't count as proof.



30 Mar 2012, 3:50 pm

Joker wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Margaret Fuller considered the superior moral nature of a woman as a rational to allow women to vote.


That doesn't count as proof.



Lets some proof of YOUR claims. And no, your personal relationships with women and your feelings about them aren't proof of anything other than the fact that you like them because you get along well with them.



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30 Mar 2012, 3:58 pm

Margaret Fuller is a historical figure, not my girlfriend.



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30 Mar 2012, 4:07 pm

You guys are seriously asking for proof about feminists thinking women are superior? How could you prove that? I think some feminists are simply interested in equality; others have a chip on their shoulder.



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30 Mar 2012, 5:08 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:
^ not precisely true. In the socialist countries of Northern Europe, people make different amounts of money depending on the amount of, and need for, their work, but the taxation rate is so progressive that it's very difficult for someone to become filthy-rich, and the social services are so good that it's difficult for anyone to be in absolute, grinding poverty.

Where this touches on feminism is that they generally have socialized medical care, meaning that their rates of maternal morbidity and mortality, and infant morbidityand mortality, are extremely low compared to the US. Also they often have structures in place to help new parents: paid parental leave, extensive daycare options, and sometimes even help coming into the home. They do this, in part, as an effort to keep their birth rates up.



As far as keeping their birth rates up, it really does not seem to be working........Not at all. Poverty and organized religion seem to be much more effective and motivating people to breed.

Furthermore, even in liberal, socialist, scandanavia there STILL is a small, wealthy elite that is exempt from the taxation laws that the majority of citizens are subjected to. On the one hand they try to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met, but on the other hand they make it nearly impossible to move up the economic ladder to the top. Economic mobility is a double-edged sword: Anyone can get rich, yet anyone can fall through the cracks and sink into poverty(even homelessness) because there is no safety net.
You are incorrect. There is, in fact, more upward mobility in socialistic countries like Canada and areas like Scandanavia than there is in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-econ ... ted_States



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30 Mar 2012, 5:13 pm

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censussta ... enspay.htm
quote:
"According to General Accountability Office (GAO) Report GAO-04-35, the weekly earnings of full-time working women were about three-fourths of men's during 2001. The report was prepared from a study of the earnings history of over 9,300 Americans for the last 18 years.

Even accounting for factors such as occupation, industry, race, marital status and job tenure, reports the GAO, working women today earn an average of 80 cents for every dollar earned by their male counterparts. This pay gap has persisted for the past two decades, remaining relatively consistent from 1983-2000."

bolding mine.
edit: wrong url originally pasted.



LKL
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30 Mar 2012, 5:17 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
You guys are seriously asking for proof about feminists thinking women are superior? How could you prove that? I think some feminists are simply interested in equality; others have a chip on their shoulder.
I hear far more right-wingers saying that women want superiority than I hear actual feminists suggesting such a thing. There are some radical feminists out there who do believe that we should have matriarchy, but they're a minority of the movement. I'd hazard to say that the percentage of women who'd like to do away with men is probably pretty similar to the percentage of men who'd like to do away with women.



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30 Mar 2012, 5:38 pm

Numbers and percentages of women that believe that females are superior moral beings do not impress me. What impresses me are the arguments in favor of their position.



30 Mar 2012, 5:43 pm

LKL wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
LKL wrote:
^ not precisely true. In the socialist countries of Northern Europe, people make different amounts of money depending on the amount of, and need for, their work, but the taxation rate is so progressive that it's very difficult for someone to become filthy-rich, and the social services are so good that it's difficult for anyone to be in absolute, grinding poverty.

Where this touches on feminism is that they generally have socialized medical care, meaning that their rates of maternal morbidity and mortality, and infant morbidityand mortality, are extremely low compared to the US. Also they often have structures in place to help new parents: paid parental leave, extensive daycare options, and sometimes even help coming into the home. They do this, in part, as an effort to keep their birth rates up.



As far as keeping their birth rates up, it really does not seem to be working........Not at all. Poverty and organized religion seem to be much more effective and motivating people to breed.

Furthermore, even in liberal, socialist, scandanavia there STILL is a small, wealthy elite that is exempt from the taxation laws that the majority of citizens are subjected to. On the one hand they try to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met, but on the other hand they make it nearly impossible to move up the economic ladder to the top. Economic mobility is a double-edged sword: Anyone can get rich, yet anyone can fall through the cracks and sink into poverty(even homelessness) because there is no safety net.
You are incorrect. There is, in fact, more upward mobility in socialistic countries like Canada and areas like Scandanavia than there is in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-econ ... ted_States



Do you have any other *studies* suggesting that it's easier for someone who grows up without a lot of money to acquire wealth(not just money, but property and capital)in Scandanavia than in the US?