Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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Interesting criteria for "superiority",
though I'm finding it hard to believe the world (or at least humanity) wouldn't be worse off were half of its members exterminated.

Not at all- the women in invaded countries certainly weren't safe, nor are wars in the modern age fought in defense of the people, as opposed to state and corporate interests.

That only makes sense if you don't consider women inferior weaklings who are wholly unsuited for combat.

If most of the women were exterminated, then humanity would be in more dire straights, compared to exterminating most of the men. Women are essential for gestating the next generation of humans. Men really aren't. You only need a few as a source for semen. However, if cloning becomes perfected, then men won't be necessary at all.



Women would sometimes be taken as trophies by the invading men. At least they got to live.



Women are smarter, stronger, tougher and better suited for combat than men.

Interesting take.

Just as a suggested read for most of the people in this thread, I suggest "The Red Queen: Sex and the evolution of human nature" by Matt Ridley. Gender behavior makes perfect sense after reading it.

Up is also down.

If you say so, it must be true.

*follows blindly*

I agree, haven't read the book though.

I sometimes get frustrated with other women and especially the endless man V woman struggle but so much of it is rooted in evolution that's there's no sense getting angry or trying to change it.

Actually, women are smarter, stronger, tougher, and better suited for combat than you. And stop worshiping women; it's not going to help you in your quest to lose your virginity.

If women are smarter, stronger, tougher and better suited for combat than men, we could only logically conclude that they should be the ones conscripted and sent off to war.

Feminism itself is an interesting, but highly toxic concept. In countries with actual 'patriarchic' cultures, I'm all in favour of feminism. However, in the western world, I think equal rights should come with equal responsibilities.
In that respect, women should have more responsibilities and less rights. It would take a lot of effort to convince people of that, though, as all feminists I've spoken to have boiled the issue down to the situation as it was ninety years ago, minus the fact that even then, men had most responsibilities, took a lot of violence and did most of the arduous, tedious and dangerous work.

I suspect that a lot of people conveniently ignore or aren't knowledgeable about how social structures developed. Large parts of the corporate world were developed by men and thus it caters to the more common male characteristics more than it does to female characteristics. I do assume everyone here agrees that there are in fact differences between the genders that are rooted in biology and that gender behavior is not entirely based in socialization (even though a lot of feminists try to argue this). The military and the political structure is also more catered towards male characteristics, because they were largely developed by men, in order to make the structures gender neutral, one would have to break them down completely and rebuild them with an exact 50-50 representation of each gender.

However, even if one did, there would be the issue that certain types of jobs attract a certain type of INDIVIDUAL of whom there are more in one gender. Over time it would cycle back to become more similar to what it originally was like because a lot more is rooted in biology than in the socialization process. It's a mistake by feminists especially to assume that the "issues" they have are with society rather than with human biology. Take the most aggression producing hormone there is, testosterone, its in essence what makes males males, if testosterone is linked to aggression, that means that its more likely that men are more aggressive as a gender. Now aggressiveness is viewed as negative by most feminists, but aggression is what gives you a higher salary, gets you that extra bit of performance or leads you to take that extra risk.

My family is littered with strong women, some of them entrepreneurs from over a hundred years before the word "feminism" was even invented who succeeded in a world that even staunch anti-feminists like myself openly admit was a "man's world". Other's were high up in politics when a woman in politics was more or less unheard of, they succeeded because that's what they wanted and they worked just as hard if not harder than their equivalent male to get what they wanted. My respect for them prevents me from being a feminist because feminism is based on women being weak willed and unable to get what they want and that's just not my experience when it comes to women. One of the women in my family who was a fairly high ranking politician on both a local and national level back in the 50s and 60s openly said "I hate feminists because I want to get to where I want to be on my merit, not because of my gender."

If you say that you have to force men to accept women in any arena, you are insulting men in assuming that we can't see that women have a lot of offer in every arena, however it has to be the "right" women".

I have a least of Femminist theories that you might like.



Liberal Feminism/ aka egalitarianism feminism

All people are created equal, women are essentially the same as men

Based upon principle of equality of opportunity and freedom

Gender not determined by sex

Inequality stems from unequal participation in spheres outside of the family, primarily education and paid labour force

Seek social changes that will create a meritocracy where social rank is based on merit and in which hierarchy and inequality are both inevitable and acceptable

Faith in rationality

Education is means to change

Oppression of women is not a structural feature of capitalist economic system

Look to state to bring about women's liberation through legislative measures - equality through law

Programs advocated include affirmative action, equal opportunity employment, employment equity, pay equity, parental leave, subsidized daycare


professional and middle-class women

National Action Committee on the Status of Woman (N.A.C.): umbrella organization representing 500 hundred feminist-oriented women's group

National Organization of Women (N.O.W.)


Marxist Feminism

Primary source of female oppression is the capitalist economic system, i.e. inferior position of women linked to class-based capitalistic system and family structure within this system
Women’s subordination was a consequence of the introduction of private property, women became the property of men and the first oppressed class
Women’s oppression caused by their economic dependence in the family but also in the work force, this keeps an exploitable reserve labour force
Women have always had unpaid work (housewife) and most low paying and boring jobs
Women must have equal participation in the economic production process
Propose wages for housework, developing a system for paying women directly for their household work
Sexuality is to feminism what work is to Marxism

working class women

Socialist Feminism

Integrate issues of gender and class, i.e. unite concepts of patriarchy and capitalism, seeks to eliminate both class and gender oppression
Women's oppression caused by their economic dependence
Economic production systems of sexuality, childbearing and childrearing, care of other members of family and sick, and gender socialization must all be looked at
Investigate interface between women’s paid labour and domestic labour lives
Traditional sexuality script is emblematic of gender power relations
Abolition of gender and class are goals where socialism will only occur with the liberation of women and women's liberation will only occur under socialism

working class women

Radical Feminism

Women live under conditions of inequality in most systems of economic production regardless of whether capitalist, socialist or communist
Gender is the fundamental form of difference, little emphasis on class or ethnicity
Patriarchy, women’s oppression and domination by men, is the fundamental oppression and at the root of other isms
Patriarchy pervades public world of formal economic production processes but also private worlds of family, marriage, sexuality and biological reproduction
Introduced the phrase the personal is political and then also the political is personal
Social change is necessary in both private and public worlds
Seek to replace existing gender roles with androgyny, any resulting differences would then be human not gender differences
Some focus specifically on the male physical, psychological and social control of female sexuality as the basic cause of female subordination
Some focus on the tyranny of reproductive biology from which women must be liberated, and thus they seek to eliminate biological sex as basis of social differentiation
First to introduce the following as feminist issues: reproductive and contraceptive rights, abortion, reproductive technologies, sexuality expression and experience, sexual and physical violence against women (rape, sexual harassment, incest, pornography and domestic violence)



Cultural Feminism

A branch of radical feminism
Identify suppression of distinctive or different female qualities, experiences, and values as the primary cause of women’s subordination
Don’t focus on elimination of patriarchy but rather seek to create an alternative female consciousness where existence of gender differences are stressed by the identification, rehabilitation and nurturance of women’s qualities
Idea of women’s cultures emphasizing consensual nonhierarchical decision-making processes, valuing responsibility, connection community, negotiation, altruism, nurturance, from this we have ecofeminism and pacifist feminism
Pornography is the theory, rape is the practice since believe that male sexuality if selfish, violent and women-hating, linking male sexuality as violence against women with pornography
Advocates lesbianism as a personal and political choice that expresses ultimate rejection of patriarchy
Separation from men in every way (some only advocate separation from male values), i.e. create institutions for women and sever relationships with men



Postmodern Feminism

all women are different and thus can never generalize
a feminist theory is not possible



Multicultural/Global Feminism

recognizing all other differences not just gender
Focuses on inclusion of oppressions based on gender, class, ethnicity, sexuality, able-bodiedness and age
Intersection of gender with race, class and issues of colonization and exploitation of women in developing world

Cool story, bro.
Do you also oppose anti-racists because it involves non-majority racial groups being "weak"?
Do all the women in your family ignorantly confuse an equal playing field with favoritism, or just the one?
Who, exactly, do they think created an environment where a woman could run for office at all, rare or no, if not men and women who thought women were capable of doing so?

Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 31 Mar 2012, 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yep. I support your stance, I imagine you've been labeled a misogynist ironically.

There's nothing wrong with feminist women and even their male counterparts following their ideology. My disdain for them comes when they insult other women who don't want what they have to offer. Given this argument a feminist would most likely say, "Well, I've never done that" or "only ______ kind of feminists behave that way, can you provide some evidence for your claim?" I've certainly experienced a disproportionately high number of times for it to be uncommon.

Anyway, I think the solution is for men and women to band together in a totally seperate movement that has nothing to do with gender. I see the feminists trying but they're failing, now we have the masculists trying as well but the movement is honestly just as ridiculous. I think they mean well but it's still the SOS.

It's nice to see men with enough sense to set women apart from feminist sand who don't see themselves as part of the patriarchy because I certainly don't view men that way either. Hopefully men and women who think alike can leave all of this behind and make life better for everyone.

It's interesting to see people imagining themselves existing outside the patriarchy,
though I do wonder what systems other than feminist ones they have for theorizing an egalitarian dynamic between men and women-
if they don't favor egalitarian systems, then what problem have they with existing means of analyzing and opposing them, for instance?
How exactly, does one fight gender as a class of oppression through movements which have "nothing to do with gender"?

Some men view Femminism as a threat to their Masculinity society has said that women are weak need that they need a man to protect them that this just isn't true most of my female friends do jobs that men do some of them weld others are fire men cops and a friend of mine is into Mixed Martial Arts that happens to be female women but it should be a sex issue or which gender is better then the other we are all people in the end.

They don't. That's the whole point. I assure you I have no intentions of "fighting" for either side.