Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Fnord
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08 Apr 2022, 9:37 am

ironpony wrote:
magz wrote:
Algierians did not receive any substantial international help, AFAIK, only some empty UN declarations.  Ukrainians are asking for weapons. That requires meeting a lot higher threshold. No sane government would send lethal weapons to a state openly violating human rights and conventions on systematic basis.
Why don't the people of Russia want to form in a great number to do something like that.
Because . . .

"Many Russians are grateful.  For some people, especially the wealthier residents of Moscow and St. Petersburg, the country's two biggest cities, life has never been better.  Russia has the fastest-growing number of millionaires in the world, and Moscow is home to 73 billionaires, according to Forbes.  Russian life expectancy is now 71, a record high and an increase of six years since 2000, when Putin was first elected.  Putin has also boosted spending on the military, restoring something of the Soviet Union's global influence -- a source of pride for millions of people here."

Read the Full Article
 HERE 



Last edited by Fnord on 08 Apr 2022, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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08 Apr 2022, 9:38 am

ironpony wrote:
Why don't the people of Russia want to form in a great number to do something like that.
Most of them do believe their state propaganda.
They want to be an empire, even at a cost of their family members dying - that would make them heroes.


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Fnord
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08 Apr 2022, 9:44 am

According to surveys published by both state-run and independent pollsters. Over 80 percent of Russians say they approve of Putin's performance as president, a rating that has remained constant since the Kremlin annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 -- a step that the vast majority here support.

For some Russians, the president isn't merely responsible for everything; he is everything.  As Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of the Russian parliament, put it in 2014: "There is no Russia today if there is no Putin."  Unlike in Western countries, where politicians are seen mostly as ordinary people, for millions of Russians, Putin is the living, breathing embodiment of the country.  Which is why criticism of the "national leader" is frequently interpreted as criticism of Mother Russia.  "I don't particularly like Putin or his United Russia party," a Russian celebrity once told me, on condition of strict anonymity because she supports the authorities in public.  "But I would never dream of criticizing either of them because I am a patriot."

Read the Full Article
 HERE 



Pepe
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08 Apr 2022, 9:54 am

Fnord wrote:
ironpony wrote:
magz wrote:
Algierians did not receive any substantial international help, AFAIK, only some empty UN declarations.  Ukrainians are asking for weapons. That requires meeting a lot higher threshold. No sane government would send lethal weapons to a state openly violating human rights and conventions on systematic basis.
Why don't the people of Russia want to form in a great number to do something like that.
Because . . .

"Many Russians are grateful.  For some people, especially the wealthier residents of Moscow and St. Petersburg, the country's two biggest cities, life has never been better.  Russia has the fastest-growing number of millionaires in the world, and Moscow is home to 73 billionaires, according to Forbes.  Russian life expectancy is now 71, a record high and an increase of six years since 2000, when Putin was first elected.  Putin has also boosted spending on the military, restoring something of the Soviet Union's global influence -- a source of pride for millions of people here."

Read the Full Article
 HERE 


Well, you finally got there. :wink:



magz
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08 Apr 2022, 10:07 am

Fnord wrote:
"I don't particularly like Putin or his United Russia party," a Russian celebrity once told me, on condition of strict anonymity because she supports the authorities in public.  "But I would never dream of criticizing either of them because I am a patriot."
And here's the deep cultural difference between Russia and e.g. Poland.
For me, criticizing my government when they do wrong things is exactly my patriotic duty. Because it's contributing to making my homeland a better place.
I believe this is also why Ukraine can't agree to be ruled from Moscow. Even if many of them share language and religion with Russians, they have more in common with the West in political culture.


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kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2022, 10:19 am

Putin's sort of nationalism is the type that dissolves gains.

Russia made real gains in many things----even, paradoxically, under Putin. However, this war will send Russia back to USSR level----and perhaps even Tsarist level.

There is just no place for ethnic exceptionalism in the modern world. This serves, inevitably, to dissolve any progress made whatsoever.



Fnord
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08 Apr 2022, 11:09 am

magz wrote:
. . . For me, criticizing my government when they do wrong things is exactly my patriotic duty.  Because it's contributing to making my homeland a better place. . .
In a Democracy, the government is not above the people.  Those who govern are servants of those who are governed.  Thus, the citizens of a democracy have not only the right to criticize governmental actions and policies, but the privilege and the duty as well.



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08 Apr 2022, 11:20 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
. . . For me, criticizing my government when they do wrong things is exactly my patriotic duty.  Because it's contributing to making my homeland a better place. . .
In a Democracy, the government is not above the people.  Those who govern are servants of those who are governed.  Thus, the citizens of a democracy have not only the right to criticize governmental actions and policies, but the privilege and the duty as well.


In theory. Canadians have been getting screwed by every level of our government selling us out to wealthy foreigners. That’s why a house costs nearly $2M and working class people can’t afford shelter. We criticize them, they continue colluding with property developers, shady lawyers, banksters, and foreign investors to screw us harder.

All signs are pointing to a reckoning.


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SkinnedWolf
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08 Apr 2022, 11:21 am

Image
GDP per capita. Blue is China. Green is Russia.

Strange.
Even a lamb like the Chinese who has been domesticated by Confucianism for two thousand years needs to pay enough profit to make us succumb to the brutal ruling machine.
The improved lives of wealthy residents cannot fully explain such high approval ratings. Unless they still have some degree of "communism".
What has happened to Russian culture?
What magic does Putin have?
"prospect"?

I read the link given by Fnord.
I have to say that comparing Xi with Putin is very unfair.
His personal control and his cult of personality would shock the Chinese today.


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 08 Apr 2022, 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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08 Apr 2022, 11:30 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
What magic does Putin have?
There is a meme here: "Russia is a state of mind."
Sometimes this state of mind is a puzzle even for psychiatrists.

I think the Chinese are more peaceful than Russians, though. I think you don't get excited over a prospect of conquering other states, do you?


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Fnord
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08 Apr 2022, 11:31 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
What magic does Putin have?


Image



magz
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08 Apr 2022, 11:33 am

^ So he should self-destruct.


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SkinnedWolf
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08 Apr 2022, 11:36 am

magz wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
What magic does Putin have?
There is a meme here: "Russia is a state of mind."
Sometimes this state of mind is a puzzle even for psychiatrists.

I think the Chinese are more peaceful than Russians, though. I think you don't get excited over a prospect of conquering other states, do you?

I sometimes even panic that China continues to expand its influence. But this is my very personal opinion.
Most Chinese would be excited to "conquer" Taiwan. However, this has something to do with Taiwan's discrimination against us.
Most people are not so interested in other territories, even those that Russia has historically occupied from China

If China has the greatest influence, what force can stop the Chinese government from continuing to fail to enforce labor laws?


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kraftiekortie
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08 Apr 2022, 11:56 am

How does Taiwan discriminate against the CCP?



Fnord
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08 Apr 2022, 11:59 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
How does Taiwan discriminate against the CCP?
By refusing to be its vassal.



SkinnedWolf
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08 Apr 2022, 12:11 pm

"We" refers to Chinese citizens.
I would not call the CCP "we".

There is a lot of evidence here. I need a little time.


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Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 08 Apr 2022, 12:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.