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Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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Joker
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31 Mar 2012, 3:21 pm

Femminsts do speak out against Islam in the West but a lot of Muslim women in America are not treated poorly the way middel eastern Muslim women are for instance it's against the law to inflict harm on some one because a religious book say's it's ok. Also they speak out agaist Mormons Christians that being me and other religious and non religious groups as well.



Tequila
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31 Mar 2012, 3:22 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Western women are primarily concerned with THEIR needs and wants! Especially since they don't live in Africa nor the Middle East.


Or what about Muslim women living within their borders? Quite a lot of white/non-Muslim feminists are all-too-eager not to rock the boat and criticise Islam for its disgusting actions in this sense for fear of being branded racist.



ValentineWiggin
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31 Mar 2012, 3:24 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
TM wrote:
If feminism at least every time I read about it was more concerned about women's rights in the middle east and Africa, and less preoccupied with what I view as the demands of western women wanting to reap the benefits but have none of the additional responsibilities, I may not view feminism as "female fascism".

Feminist groups are quite active in the middle east and Africa, which you'd know if you ran in many feminist circles.
Who do you think is combatting the hardships women face there?
nobody?


The women who actually LIVE in those countries. Though I'm sure there are a few affluent do-gooders from the US and Europe with enough spare time to pitch in and help.

Yes...that's feminist activity...what's the issue, again?
AspieRogue wrote:
Though I am not muslim and don't approve of everything muslims do, I see no indications any longer that Islam is a real threat to my country any longer(especially since we have a lot more people and muslims are a much smaller percentage of the US population). I will also freely admit an admiration for Islams machismo, misanthropy, and depersonification of God(as force that has no tangible form and is completely nonhuman). But I digress......

:lol:
AspieRogue wrote:
Western women are primarily concerned with THEIR needs and wants! Especially since they don't live in Africa nor the Middle East.

Western PEOPLE are primarily concerned with their needs and wants, and it's sad.
What has this to do with feminism or gender issues on a large scale?
AspieRogue wrote:
To reap the benefits and shirk responsibilities is an all-too-human tendency. Women aren't saints, they're just flawed human beings like men are.

Naw, 4 realz? :lol:


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Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 31 Mar 2012, 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Joker
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31 Mar 2012, 3:24 pm

Tequila wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Western women are primarily concerned with THEIR needs and wants! Especially since they don't live in Africa nor the Middle East.


Or what about Muslim women living within their borders? Quite a lot of white/non-Muslim feminists are all-too-eager not to rock the boat and criticise Islam for its disgusting actions in this sense for fear of being branded racist.


A lot of western women are not afriad to speak out and since your race and religion are two seperate thing's speaking out against it will not brand them a racist.



ValentineWiggin
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31 Mar 2012, 3:30 pm

Tequila wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Western women are primarily concerned with THEIR needs and wants! Especially since they don't live in Africa nor the Middle East.


Or what about Muslim women living within their borders? Quite a lot of white/non-Muslim feminists are all-too-eager not to rock the boat and criticise Islam for its disgusting actions in this sense for fear of being branded racist.


I agree.
It's very interesting to me to see self-described leftists not speak out against such anti-intellectual, misogynist, homophobic, and violent-to-the-core cultural trends as Islamification of the West, but in all reality, doing so WILL get one branded "racist", among other things.

That Islam is not a race is quite irrelevant. :lol:


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They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
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Joker
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31 Mar 2012, 3:38 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Tequila wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Western women are primarily concerned with THEIR needs and wants! Especially since they don't live in Africa nor the Middle East.


Or what about Muslim women living within their borders? Quite a lot of white/non-Muslim feminists are all-too-eager not to rock the boat and criticise Islam for its disgusting actions in this sense for fear of being branded racist.


I agree.
It's very interesting to me to see self-described leftists not speak out against such anti-intellectual, misogynist, homophobic, and violent-to-the-core cultural trends as Islamification of the West, but in all reality, doing so WILL get one branded "racist", among other things.

That Islam is not a race is quite irrelevant. :lol:


This (^)



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31 Mar 2012, 6:28 pm

EXPECIALLY wrote:
TM wrote:
Just as a suggested read for most of the people in this thread, I suggest "The Red Queen: Sex and the evolution of human nature" by Matt Ridley. Gender behavior makes perfect sense after reading it.


I agree, haven't read the book though.

I sometimes get frustrated with other women and especially the endless man V woman struggle but so much of it is rooted in evolution that's there's no sense getting angry or trying to change it.

Wow, a book written by men, about women, helps men to understand women. Whoda' thunk.



Joker
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31 Mar 2012, 6:30 pm

Women should write books about men wait a second they do and some of their points are pretty accurate.



LKL
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31 Mar 2012, 6:35 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Joker wrote:
Some men view Femminism as a threat to their Masculinity society has said that women are weak need that they need a man to protect them that this just isn't true most of my female friends do jobs that men do some of them weld others are fire men cops and a friend of mine is into Mixed Martial Arts that happens to be female women but it should be a sex issue or which gender is better then the other we are all people in the end.


As I've posted before, people who think themselves "egalitarian" and favor "separate but equal" spheres for women aka gender roles
usually do view feminism as a threat to masculinity with some validity- because feminism increasingly encroaches on what they consider to be masculinity itself, that being male domination of certain fields and roles in society. There's considerable sociological evidence pointing to that being the reason masculinity as a cultural construct has become increasingly synonymous with objectifying women and being violent toward them and other men- the "box" of masculinity is growing smaller and smaller.

Part of this is because many men view 'masculinity' as being synonymous with 'non-female.' Thus, when female roles expand, masculine roles shrink by definition. If more men though of 'being a good man' as synonymous with 'being a good person, a grown-up, a good protector and provider,' then there would be fewer fragile male egos hurt by feminism.



Joker
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31 Mar 2012, 6:37 pm

My ego has never been hurt by feminism but I am only speaking for myself I don't speak for the other males.



LKL
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31 Mar 2012, 6:48 pm

TM wrote:
Ok, let me ask you, do you favor gender points to get more women into male dominated studies, requirements for female representatives on boards and in management or employees in a company?
\
You are making a presumption not only without evidence, but in the face of evidence to the contrary, that men are actually better than women at such things.



ValentineWiggin
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31 Mar 2012, 6:49 pm

LKL wrote:
Part of this is because many men view 'masculinity' as being synonymous with 'non-female.' Thus, when female roles expand, masculine roles shrink by definition. If more men though of 'being a good man' as synonymous with 'being a good person, a grown-up, a good protector and provider,' then there would be fewer fragile male egos hurt by feminism.


Exactly.


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of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


LKL
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31 Mar 2012, 6:51 pm

Tequila wrote:
TM wrote:
If feminism at least every time I read about it was more concerned about women's rights in the middle east and Africa, and less preoccupied with what I view as the demands of western women wanting to reap the benefits but have none of the additional responsibilities, I may not view feminism as "female fascism".


Some feminists are similarly quite eager to downplay or deflect the real cause of much harm to women in the world - Islamic male supremacism. Hm, I wonder why this is?

Believe me, feminists are just as much against FGM and the veil as they are against limits on birth control and equal pay for equal work. We talk about the latter more because they impact us more, but we would be incensed if Sharia-style patriarchies tried to be established here. Or, at least American feminists would; after our discussion on the other thread, I'm curious about what British feminists have to say on the issue.



ValentineWiggin
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31 Mar 2012, 6:55 pm

LKL wrote:
TM wrote:
Ok, let me ask you, do you favor gender points to get more women into male dominated studies, requirements for female representatives on boards and in management or employees in a company?
\
You are making a presumption not only without evidence, but in the face of evidence to the contrary, that men are actually better than women at such things.


That's to me what the question boils down to, as well- the extreme disparities we see in leadership positions, positions of authority, and plain statistical makeup of certain fields are in my mind hard to define in terms of "natural" (vs social) causation-
though I'm sure those who read androcentric evo-psycho books will certainly try-
without resorting to absurdist notions of women being naturally inferior or uninterested in such things.

Although... what seems laughable to someone who sees human beings as a species with more commonalities among them than differences,
and gender roles as forced and harmful scripts,
will, to someone who wants those traditional, enforced dichotomous roles upheld, seem perfectly-sensible.


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"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Last edited by ValentineWiggin on 31 Mar 2012, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
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31 Mar 2012, 6:56 pm

LKL wrote:
Believe me, feminists are just as much against FGM and the veil as they are against limits on birth control and equal pay for equal work. We talk about the latter more because they impact us more, but we would be incensed if Sharia-style patriarchies tried to be established here. Or, at least American feminists would; after our discussion on the other thread, I'm curious about what British feminists have to say on the issue.


Funny, the beau and I were just now discussing that there are British communities operating under Sharia law,
and what would happen if attempts were made to establish such communities in the US.


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"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Joker
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31 Mar 2012, 7:04 pm

I think as long as the muslim communites being allowed to live under sharia law it wouldn't be so bad I mean certin areas in the south live under the bible belt why can't muslims live under their own religious laws just as long as it isn't hurting anyone.