Page 6 of 7 [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 100
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

05 Mar 2010, 12:24 am

wesmontfan wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
wesmontfan wrote:
Sand wrote:
wesmontfan wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Great Vowel Shift, surely you don't mean Grimm's first law?

(It's a law that made all the p's sound like an f (pater -> father) along with a few other vowels)

In this regard, it's been said that French is closer to Latin somehow.

Also, the difference between french and english is that the english language apparently belongs to celtic tongues (this also includes german and dutch languages IIRC), whereas only a portion of the french language does (most likely the northern parts of France), the rest is mostly from latin (due to the proximity of Italy and therefore Rome).


wrong.
English is a Germanic language. French is Latin- based, or a Romance language- akin to Italian, Spanish, and ( oddly enough) Romanian.

Although the Breton ( in the northwest tip of France) are Celitic speakers (in fact thier language is virtually indentical to Welsh).

The Romans conquered Gaul. The celtic inhabitants became assimilated to Roman Latin, and became the French.

When the Romans abandoned Britian in the age of Arthur, the Germanic tribes of North Germany and the netherlands (the Angles and Saxons) invaded and kicked the Celtic natives out of the best parts of Britain. The Germanic tribes became the English, the Celts became the Welsh, the Scots, the Irish, and those Celts that fled across the channel to Brittany became the Breton.

The Island of Britain was later pillaged and conquered by Vikings from Scandavia.
The Norwejian and Danish Vikings are also Germanic in origin.

So the English started out as mish-mosh of two branches of Germanic: mainland Germanic and Scandavian. Very little Celtic influence, but some Latin influence.

Both the Celtic and Anglo Saxon peoples of Britain were conquored by the French speaking Normans in 1066.

French became the language of the Aristocracy of Britian for three hundred years.

The result was modern English: a choatic pastiche of two kinds of Germanic languages, church latin, and Latin-by-way-of-French.

All these influences caused english to loose complicated grammar, but caused it to have complicated spelling ( I can spell in Spanish as well as I can in my native english but I can barely speak spanish- Spanish is quite user-friendly on paper ).

But one thing you can be grateful for if you're a nonnative who has to learn English. Its the one European language that lost that gender thing!

You dont have to worry about what sexual gender inanimate objects are in English, like you do in virtually every other European language.


There's no gender in Finnish and the word for either "he" or "she" is hän.


Thats interesting.
Not surprising though because Finnish is one of the oddball languages of Europe that isnt Indo-European.

The Germanic, Slavic, Romance, Celtic languages,and Greek are all subdivisions of a larger family and all desceneded from an ancient common ancestor. Thay all have certaain common traits like dividing the universe into genders.

Finnish is part of a different family of languages spoken by tribal peoples in Siberia, and has no kin in the rest of Europe except a distant kinship with Hungarian (also not related to anything else in Europe except Finnish).

Non Indo European Finnish never had the gender thing. English is Indo European and did have it, but lost it at some point.

In contrast is German in which " a young woman has no sex, but a turnip does!' ( Mark Twain), or French in which "vagina" is femanine ( as youd expect) but "uterus" is masculine.


I thought that Estonian is another Finno-Ugric language. The people of Karelia and Komi, which are near Finland, also speak such language, as do people in Urdmurtia.


you're right. The Finns do have ethnic nieghbors who speak related Uralian languages in that same sub-artic corner of Europe that didnt get swamped by Indo-European Languages. I was oversimplifying a bit. The big nations that border Finnland use Indo European languages (Scandanavian to the West, and Slavic to the East).

When the Finns werent being oppressed by the Kings of Sweden, they were being oppressed by the Czars of Russia. After WWI they finnally got their own country and thier own written language- the youngest written language in Europe.


Actually the Russians treated the Finns better than the Swedes and gave them a good deal more autonomy. The Swedes were the elite class and there are still sections of Finland that speak Swedish. All road signs are in both Finnish and Swedish and both languages are taught in school.



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

05 Mar 2010, 5:53 am

pandabear wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
A question for the French experts reading this thread: Does anyone know where I can find a definitive list of the (old and new) words that were affected by the official 1990 spelling changes?


Huh? I never heard of this.


Here is a link http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/Annexe:Rectifications_orthographiques_du_fran%C3%A7ais_en_1990

As far as I can gather kids are being taught the new spellings but in practice both old and new spellings are used in the "real world" and both are treated as correct. So for those confused whether to use inches or centimetres, kilograms or pounds you also have a choice of French spelling too. :lol:

I'm trying to get the definitive list of old -> new spellings but it seems impossible to track down. The Academy Français originated the spelling changes in the form of a set of rules, but I don't think they can be applied blindly because there are some words which except themselves from the rules... and I don't know which ones.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

05 Mar 2010, 10:46 am

WHAT!?!?!?!?

Quote:
On ne met plus d’accent circonflexe sur « i » ni « u ».


Well, CELA ME FAIT CHIER!! !! !



phil777
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 May 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,825
Location: Montreal, Québec

05 Mar 2010, 12:14 pm

Hein? o.o C'est vrai? On mets plus d'accents sur le u? =( Ben au moins, ça résout pas mal de problèmes... (There's still the e and the o at least)

Oh and, for the record, there is no trouble with France.... <.<; Absolutely nothing. ^^;



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

05 Mar 2010, 1:33 pm

Quote:
Il eût fallut que je bouffasse de la bonne nourriture.

Le repas que nous bouffâmes fût vachement bon.


Did I put circumflexes in the correct places?



Psychopompos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 617
Location: France

05 Mar 2010, 2:12 pm

pandabear wrote:
Quote:
Il eût fallut que je bouffasse de la bonne nourriture.

Le repas que nous bouffâmes fût vachement bon.


Did I put circumflexes in the correct places?


I think so.


_________________
Alum dare, dolere, id Hephaestus, id ire / Pro profundis fati / Pro pulchris infernarum profundis / Pro pulchris omni fati brachium / Pulchris profundis infernarum servi fati / Profundis, profundis fati


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

08 Mar 2010, 11:03 am

France is apparently doing better economically than the rest of Europe right now:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/08/world ... ?th&emc=th



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

30 Nov 2010, 10:42 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZWZZRZDcSQ&feature=related[/youtube]



Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

30 Nov 2010, 10:51 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
BTW, I am half French, so any jokes about the French by me are only half-racist.


French is a nationality not a race.

Isn't France the only country in the world to lose 2 wars to Italy.



Psychopompos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 617
Location: France

01 Dec 2010, 3:46 am

If you mean Italian occupation in South France during WW2, it was after the defeat against Germany.
... during the actual 1940's fight, France defeated Italy.


_________________
Alum dare, dolere, id Hephaestus, id ire / Pro profundis fati / Pro pulchris infernarum profundis / Pro pulchris omni fati brachium / Pulchris profundis infernarum servi fati / Profundis, profundis fati


Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

01 Dec 2010, 6:47 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Tallyman wrote:
I might if I had something faster than dial-up internet to access it. France Telecom / Orange have a virtual monopoly on telecoms here in France. They just aren't interested in putting broadband into small villages and hamlets. So unless you live in a town forget high speed internet connections. Similarly due to their virtual monopoly France has amongst the highest mobile phone charges in the world. I've found it much cheaper to keep my English mobile phone and pay international roaming rates than to pay standard local French rates.


Sound like Canada. :lol:


I live in a town of less than 20,000 people and have decent Internet and televison access.


Sorry Tollorin. Doesnt sound like Canada.

Small towns near me:

Beaverlodge: population 2500
Sexsmith: population 2500
Hythe: population 1000 or so
Wembly: population 1400

They all have (wired) high speed Internet. Most towns in Alberta do, and in the case of the Grande Prairie area (where I live), if you live within 25km or so of town, you can probably have it as well.

example: http://www.albertahighspeed.ca/access_us.html


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.


Tollorin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

01 Dec 2010, 11:44 am

Sound like Québec then...
You can't deny the high moblile phones fee though.

Edit: Just learned that a Saguenay (Québec) town will finally get mobile phone services, after reclaiming it for seven years...


_________________
Down with speculators!! !


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

01 Dec 2010, 1:51 pm

Psychopompos wrote:
If you mean Italian occupation in South France during WW2, it was after the defeat against Germany.
... during the actual 1940's fight, France defeated Italy.


France was also conquered by Rome, which is a part of Italy.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

01 Dec 2010, 1:57 pm

pandabear wrote:
Psychopompos wrote:
If you mean Italian occupation in South France during WW2, it was after the defeat against Germany.
... during the actual 1940's fight, France defeated Italy.


France was also conquered by Rome, which is a part of Italy.


Both inhabited by different peoples in ancient times and modern times.

ruveyn



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

01 Dec 2010, 3:15 pm

Well, some of their descendents are still there.



Psychopompos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 617
Location: France

01 Dec 2010, 5:07 pm

pandabear wrote:
Psychopompos wrote:
If you mean Italian occupation in South France during WW2, it was after the defeat against Germany.
... during the actual 1940's fight, France defeated Italy.


France was also conquered by Rome, which is a part of Italy.


300 years ago, the Gauls assieged and looted Rome.


_________________
Alum dare, dolere, id Hephaestus, id ire / Pro profundis fati / Pro pulchris infernarum profundis / Pro pulchris omni fati brachium / Pulchris profundis infernarum servi fati / Profundis, profundis fati