Concentration of far-right extremists on PPR

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What's PPR's bend?
Far Right Bend 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Rightwing Bend 18%  18%  [ 7 ]
Centre-Right Bend 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Centrist Bend 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Radical Centrist Bend 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Centre-Left Bend 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
Leftwing-Bend 23%  23%  [ 9 ]
Far Left Bend 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Syncreticist Bend? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Extremist Bend (any direction) 18%  18%  [ 7 ]
Undecided 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Other (write in thread) 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 39

marshall
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19 Oct 2010, 12:23 pm

ikorack wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Apparently the O.P. believes anyone who does not fall panting and heaving upon the bosom of the Democrat Left-Wing program is a a Far Right Extremist.

This republic was founded by Far Right Extremists all the way from Patric Henry and Thomas Paine to Jefferson and Washington.

And they all lived in the 18th - early 19th century. It was a completely different world then. How can you compare their views to todays political spectrum? You have no idea what they would think if they lived in the 21st century.


There involvement in our country's establishment would make their views relevant. As for your 21st century statement if there is actually something you want to point out that might have affected their political views i would recommend you do that instead of making a vague statement that can't be validated or argued against. We only know what they did think, not what they might have thought had they lived today instead of yesterday.

There are millions of things that would probably have affected their views. The industrial revolution, huge increases in interstate commerce, the transformation from local to global economies, etc...

Taking their ideas on the role of government without any regard for the context and times in which they lived seems pretty naive to me. There was simply less reason for government to be involved in regulating things back then. It seems the main reason for their wariness of centralized government power was imperialism/colonialism.

Also, it's pretty hypocritical of you to get on me for not sufficiently backing my claims when the poster I was responding to almost never backs up the things he spouts.



number5
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19 Oct 2010, 12:29 pm

Aimless wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Aimless wrote:
I think the problem, in a word, is smugness.


PPR is a smug fit.


Aimless likes this.


So do I. Kind of like how you can literally smell the smug upon entering a Whole Foods supermarket.

I believe in bridging the gap too, Chevand.



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19 Oct 2010, 12:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
What is a "far right" extremist? Are people who think the government is too big and too invasive far right extremists? Are people who resent income redistribution, especially if they are on the short end of that redistribution, far right extremists? Are people who are disgusted by Liberal Political Correctness far right extremists?

ruveyn


I would call the first two economically neoliberal and I very much disagree with that viewpoint. You could call it economically right wing. I would call the last one libertarian if it's well-argued, and reactionary conservative if it isn't. I wouldn't call any of those viewpoints extremist.

I would call some of the racism on this site extremist. Not the paranoia about white people being treated unfairly, that's just reactionary. The outright racism is extremist, but not necessarily right-wing.



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19 Oct 2010, 1:45 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I would call some of the racism on this site extremist. Not the paranoia about white people being treated unfairly, that's just reactionary. The outright racism is extremist, but not necessarily right-wing.


Paranoia about white people being treated unfairly is not what I think it is, at least for me, I'm tired of the laws issued by Congress and the Senate being so stupid in an attempt to display their lack of 'racism' by going the opposite way and making and continuing laws, such as Affirmative Action and Equal Opportunity Employment laws, which are no longer as necessary as they were a half a century ago. In an economy where taxation is increasing to pay for more government spending and where there is a high percentage of unemployed citizens, businesses are going to hire whoever conveys the most taxation benefits to them, whether the hiring managers are racist or just good businessmen. It is not the fault of the people who benefit from these laws, but rather it is the fault of those who made these laws while sitting comfortably in their cushy chairs at Capitol Hill.

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19 Oct 2010, 3:10 pm

We seem to be indulging in a mania of generalization.

Not only do we classify people on the basis of their stated support or opposition to a particular policy, but then we go on to assume that their support or opposition to all other policies will fall neatly into a preconceived box of beliefs.

I suggest that nothing could be further from the truth.

Politics is the study of power--who exercises it over whom and to what degree. Every political discussion is, at root, a discussion of who has the power to make decisions that affect other people, from whom do they derive that power, and are they exercising that power properly?

To abstract to a very generalized description, conservatives are those who resist change to established power structures. But by that definition, we make a very grave mistake when we conflate the "right wing" with "conservativism." (As puddingmouse has already observed.)

So what is the "right wing?" Well, in it's original conception in revolutionary France, the conflation was more accurate. But now, I subscribe to Hayak's view that the political spectrum is no longer a linear spectrum with conservatives on one end, socialists on the other and liberals in the middle. To suggest that libertarians can be identified on a spectrum that is defined by positions relative to socialism and conservativism is really meaningless.

Now we have statists and libertarians; capitalists and socialists; authoritarians and egalitarians; localists, regionalists and nationalists and a wide variety of other "-ists" all trying for power like a pack of dogs with a blanket.

That fight is not a bad thing, in my view, provided that it is not a 'winner take all' proposition. No political ideology can succeed indefinitely. If one view is completely shut out of power, then they are incentivized to use aggressive means to gain it, and disincentivized to accommodate divergent views once they have gained it.

So what is the political bent of PPR? To my mind, there is none. To the extent that this allows us a full and frank discussion from a multiplicity of points of view, I think this is valuable. To the extent that it causes us to descend into a frenzy of tossing barbs from intractable positions, I think it is pointless.


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19 Oct 2010, 3:49 pm

visagrunt wrote:
We seem to be indulging in a mania of generalization.

Not only do we classify people on the basis of their stated support or opposition to a particular policy, but then we go on to assume that their support or opposition to all other policies will fall neatly into a preconceived box of beliefs.

I suggest that nothing could be further from the truth.

Politics is the study of power--who exercises it over whom and to what degree. Every political discussion is, at root, a discussion of who has the power to make decisions that affect other people, from whom do they derive that power, and are they exercising that power properly?

To abstract to a very generalized description, conservatives are those who resist change to established power structures. But by that definition, we make a very grave mistake when we conflate the "right wing" with "conservativism." (As puddingmouse has already observed.)

So what is the "right wing?" Well, in it's original conception in revolutionary France, the conflation was more accurate. But now, I subscribe to Hayak's view that the political spectrum is no longer a linear spectrum with conservatives on one end, socialists on the other and liberals in the middle. To suggest that libertarians can be identified on a spectrum that is defined by positions relative to socialism and conservativism is really meaningless.

Now we have statists and libertarians; capitalists and socialists; authoritarians and egalitarians; localists, regionalists and nationalists and a wide variety of other "-ists" all trying for power like a pack of dogs with a blanket.

That fight is not a bad thing, in my view, provided that it is not a 'winner take all' proposition. No political ideology can succeed indefinitely. If one view is completely shut out of power, then they are incentivized to use aggressive means to gain it, and disincentivized to accommodate divergent views once they have gained it.

So what is the political bent of PPR? To my mind, there is none. To the extent that this allows us a full and frank discussion from a multiplicity of points of view, I think this is valuable. To the extent that it causes us to descend into a frenzy of tossing barbs from intractable positions, I think it is pointless.

Good post. Thanks.



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19 Oct 2010, 4:03 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
It's still mostly liberals here. It's just seems more conservative because the conservatives here have to be the kind that will stand their ground and take on a forum full of liberals- alone if need be.


All those liberal posters seem pretty quiet or must be keeping their mouths shut as I see rightwing talking points and racist tirades that go on here daily with little to no leftwing debunking - and it the left does debunk the BS it's a lot more soft-spoken then the loudmouth hordes of conservatives spewing the garbage out.


Couldn't agree with you more MP. I have pretty much stopped posting as all I seem to be doing is repeating the same response to the same vicious diatribes regarding race, anti islam, sexuality, abortion, social welfare etc etc.

The problem with nasty, judgmental folk being that to blame everyone else, to demand JUSTICE, to have an 'I am all right so screw you attitude' or to invoke the bible to support ones nasty sense of self righteous 'morality' requires very little use of a persons cognitive abilities.


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19 Oct 2010, 4:09 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
It's still mostly liberals here. It's just seems more conservative because the conservatives here have to be the kind that will stand their ground and take on a forum full of liberals- alone if need be.


All those liberal posters seem pretty quiet or must be keeping their mouths shut as I see rightwing talking points and racist tirades that go on here daily with little to no leftwing debunking - and it the left does debunk the BS it's a lot more soft-spoken then the loudmouth hordes of conservatives spewing the garbage out.


Couldn't agree with you more MP.


Yes you could. You could get right out there and start spewing garbage out in retaliation.



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19 Oct 2010, 4:17 pm

^ and this is my point. My so called "garbage" comes from trying to understand the nature of things, from reading the news, from reading about science, from taking an interest in the trials and tribulations of the masses. Where as your spew is GARBAGE as it is molded around a disparate collection of semi coherent ramblings many centuries old.


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Last edited by DentArthurDent on 19 Oct 2010, 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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19 Oct 2010, 4:24 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
^ and this is my point. My so called "garbage" comes from trying to understand the nature of things, from reading the news, from reading about science, from taking an interest in the trials and tribulations of the masses. Your spew is GARBAGE as it is based upon and molded around a disparate collection of semi coherent ramblings many centuries old.


Right. Keep telling yourself that so that you keep thinking it.



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19 Oct 2010, 4:29 pm

^ what keep telling myself that those who believe in the ramblings from the OT are an accurate depiction of the creation of the universe and life on earth are a bunch of self deluded nutjobs? Don't need to keep telling myself that as it is blinding obvious. Unlike you I refuse to burn scientific discoveries that disprove creation.


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19 Oct 2010, 4:44 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
^ what keep telling myself that those who believe in the ramblings from the OT are an accurate depiction of the creation of the universe and life on earth are a bunch of self deluded nutjobs? Don't need to keep telling myself that as it is blinding obvious. Unlike you I refuse to burn scientific discoveries that disprove creation.

This isn't a religion bashing thread. It'd be nice to stay on topic.



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19 Oct 2010, 5:18 pm

marshall wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
^ what keep telling myself that those who believe in the ramblings from the OT are an accurate depiction of the creation of the universe and life on earth are a bunch of self deluded nutjobs? Don't need to keep telling myself that as it is blinding obvious. Unlike you I refuse to burn scientific discoveries that disprove creation.

This isn't a religion bashing thread. It'd be nice to stay on topic.



wait, i'm supposed to avoid bashing religion outside of designated religion bashing threads?

but....... but........ but.........


*cries and goes home*


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19 Oct 2010, 6:05 pm

marshall wrote:
ikorack wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Apparently the O.P. believes anyone who does not fall panting and heaving upon the bosom of the Democrat Left-Wing program is a a Far Right Extremist.

This republic was founded by Far Right Extremists all the way from Patric Henry and Thomas Paine to Jefferson and Washington.

And they all lived in the 18th - early 19th century. It was a completely different world then. How can you compare their views to todays political spectrum? You have no idea what they would think if they lived in the 21st century.


There involvement in our country's establishment would make their views relevant. As for your 21st century statement if there is actually something you want to point out that might have affected their political views i would recommend you do that instead of making a vague statement that can't be validated or argued against. We only know what they did think, not what they might have thought had they lived today instead of yesterday.

There are millions of things that would probably have affected their views. The industrial revolution, huge increases in interstate commerce, the transformation from local to global economies, etc...

Taking their ideas on the role of government without any regard for the context and times in which they lived seems pretty naive to me. There was simply less reason for government to be involved in regulating things back then. It seems the main reason for their wariness of centralized government power was imperialism/colonialism.

Also, it's pretty hypocritical of you to get on me for not sufficiently backing my claims when the poster I was responding to almost never backs up the things he spouts.


Keyword being could. Taking into consideration context might seem logical on the surface but people being as complicated as they are and perspective being what it is it would be very easy to claim that a historical person would have views that fit yours or anyone else's. We have no way(at the present time) of objectively calculating what events affect someones political views as they grow, even if we did have some way to calculate that it would probably involve a massive amount of information about the personality of the one involved and that is something we just don't have.

If you have a problem with ruveyn's posts you can bring it up with him. But I'm curious as to what reasons you think there are today for centralized government that didn't exist in past days? also do you think that imperialism/colonialism couldn't resurge?



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19 Oct 2010, 6:25 pm

ikorack wrote:
marshall wrote:
ikorack wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Apparently the O.P. believes anyone who does not fall panting and heaving upon the bosom of the Democrat Left-Wing program is a a Far Right Extremist.

This republic was founded by Far Right Extremists all the way from Patric Henry and Thomas Paine to Jefferson and Washington.

And they all lived in the 18th - early 19th century. It was a completely different world then. How can you compare their views to todays political spectrum? You have no idea what they would think if they lived in the 21st century.


There involvement in our country's establishment would make their views relevant. As for your 21st century statement if there is actually something you want to point out that might have affected their political views i would recommend you do that instead of making a vague statement that can't be validated or argued against. We only know what they did think, not what they might have thought had they lived today instead of yesterday.

There are millions of things that would probably have affected their views. The industrial revolution, huge increases in interstate commerce, the transformation from local to global economies, etc...

Taking their ideas on the role of government without any regard for the context and times in which they lived seems pretty naive to me. There was simply less reason for government to be involved in regulating things back then. It seems the main reason for their wariness of centralized government power was imperialism/colonialism.

Also, it's pretty hypocritical of you to get on me for not sufficiently backing my claims when the poster I was responding to almost never backs up the things he spouts.


Keyword being could. Taking into consideration context might seem logical on the surface but people being as complicated as they are and perspective being what it is it would be very easy to claim that a historical person would have views that fit yours or anyone else's. We have no way(at the present time) of objectively calculating what events affect someones political views as they grow, even if we did have some way to calculate that it would probably involve a massive amount of information about the personality of the one involved and that is something we just don't have.

If you have a problem with ruveyn's posts you can bring it up with him. But I'm curious as to what reasons you think there are today for centralized government that didn't exist in past days? also do you think that imperialism/colonialism couldn't resurge?


All I was trying to say was that it doesn't even make sense to say these people were to the right or left politically because 20-21st century definitions of right vs. left didn't even exist back then. All I can say was that they were anti-imperialist, but imperialism doesn't really even fit in the right vs. left paradigm these days as there are imperialists and isolationists on both sides of the political spectrum.



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19 Oct 2010, 6:45 pm

Yes well I doubt that imperialism was the only issue that any political leader back then felt strongly about. If your only complaint is the words he used might i suggest replacing right with conservative?