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MCalavera
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09 Jan 2011, 12:53 am

91 wrote:

Is it a sin to disobey your parents? Yes. The wages of all sin is death, but we live under the covenant of grace.

Do you really believe that?

91
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09 Jan 2011, 1:03 am

MCalavera wrote:

91 wrote:

Is it a sin to disobey your parents? Yes. The wages of all sin is death, but we live under the covenant of grace.

Do you really believe that?

Yes

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Sand
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09 Jan 2011, 1:17 am

MCalavera wrote:

91 wrote:

Is it a sin to disobey your parents? Yes. The wages of all sin is death, but we live under the covenant of grace.

Do you really believe that?

Does that infer that being a parent confers a parent's right to execute a child if the parent judges the child is disobedient.? And if a religious person does not desire a child, yet the fertilized egg disobeys by proceeding to develop, does the parent then have the right to abort?

91
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09 Jan 2011, 1:31 am

No, certainly not. During the time of the OT God's law was the nation of Israel's law. The underlying principle has not changed, we now deal with the law through Christ and his sacrifice. So now a parent would not be empowered to kill their child, it is to God to judge them. This is reflected in Matthew 15:4 where it states 'For God commanded saying Honour thy father and mother and He that curseth father or mother let him die the death'.

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Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Sand
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09 Jan 2011, 1:34 am

91 wrote:

But since unwanted pregnancies do obviously occur it seems God is ineffectual in carrying out his judgment of death.

91
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09 Jan 2011, 1:43 am

Sand wrote:

But since unwanted pregnancies do obviously occur it seems God is ineffectual in carrying out his judgment of death.

Really Sand, really? Sometimes you astound me, your an intelligent person, you often say very interesting things. Then you come out with stuff like this.

Parents are commanded to love their Children and take responsibilities for their own actions. No parent can legitimately state that it is the their command that their child not exist and that any child that does, is somehow disobedient, clearly it is not within the power of the child to obey.

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Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Sand
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09 Jan 2011, 2:18 am

91 wrote:

Sand wrote:

But since unwanted pregnancies do obviously occur it seems God is ineffectual in carrying out his judgment of death.

But current Catholic proclamations seem to indicate that an embryo is a fully qualified human and should be treated as such. It's interesting you seem to disagree with that. Disobedience can be obvious in an act and not just a thought and if a pregnancy is unwanted - and I doubt all parents are happy with an unexpected undesired pregnancy - then the proper remedy should be applied. Natural abortions are far from uncommon and how can you say how they are motivated?

I appreciate your estimation of my intellect but I doubt the points I raise require anything more than basic common sense.

91
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09 Jan 2011, 3:22 am

^^^^

Under Catholic teaching an embryo is a fully qualified human life. It does not however have the capacity to choose its own destiny yet and thus requires our protection.

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Life is real ! Life is earnest!
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Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Sand
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09 Jan 2011, 3:32 am

91 wrote:

^^^^

Under Catholic teaching an embryo is a fully qualified human life. It does not however have the capacity to choose its own destiny yet and thus requires our protection.

Insofar as I can observe, the capacity to choose one's destiny is a rather rare event for anybody. But if a mother foresees her hatred of children or perhaps an incapable environment for a possible child as being a poor choice rather than merely returning the child to God which, under normal circumstances would be its course anyway, doesn't the mother have the duty to make the choice for the child?

91
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09 Jan 2011, 3:38 am

^^^^

There is no such thing as an unwanted child. How many families are awaiting the opportunity to adopt? Also many children are born facing great difficulty, but once there is life, one simply cannot snuff it out as a preference trumped up to duty.

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Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Sand
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09 Jan 2011, 4:25 am

91 wrote:

I am sorry to say your judgment in the matter is seriously impaired. I won't bother to go into details as merely being elementarily aware of current events denies your statement.

ruveyn
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09 Jan 2011, 6:30 am

Taking things on Faith makes one impervious to Facts.

ruveyn

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09 Jan 2011, 7:05 pm

91 wrote:

There is no such thing as an unwanted child.

*snort*
In an ideal world, that would be true. In ours, it is not. The foster system is overflowing with unwanted children.

Healthy, white babies - yes, those are usually wanted by someone - but even if I am a healthy white mother, why should I enslave my body to an unwanted zef so that some white parents can have a white baby instead of a black one? It's almost like deliberately breeding 'pure-bred' dogs while tens of thousands of perfectly good puppies languish and die in pounds.

Inuyasha
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09 Jan 2011, 7:20 pm

Why should you commit infanticide because having a child is inconveinent?

LKL
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09 Jan 2011, 8:28 pm

abortion is not infanticide.

Inuyasha
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09 Jan 2011, 9:42 pm

LKL wrote:

abortion is not infanticide.

I would argue it is.

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