atheists and aspergers?

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ruveyn
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18 Dec 2011, 12:09 pm

dmm1010 wrote:

I strongly recommend that everyone who's undecided about whether YHWH is likely to exist reads the Bible.

An unbiased read would convince someone that YHWH shouldn't exist.

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lunarious
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18 Dec 2011, 12:34 pm

And how do you get the unbiased perspective?
As a matter of fact, I dont think you need to read the bible to understand God existence (we are about God I presume).
You need to leave everything!
There is a prophetic expression with us, to the extent they can be trusted: "You should give up on someone who has grown up".
The truth is acceisble to children.
Intelligence provides problem solving abilities, children cant solve problems, but they have no problems. Problems comes when the grownups comes ... something like that.

NathanealWest
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18 Dec 2011, 2:27 pm

TheKing wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

PM wrote:

It seems that the correlation between Asperger's Syndrome and Atheism stems from the fact that many people on the spectrum find the principles and dogma of religion to be illogical.

Thing that most people on the spectrum fail to realize is there is often a difference between the actual teachings of a religion and what some religious leader claims.

after i left Christianity, i started studying various religions and none of them had any more logic than the last. its a primitive belief for a primitive time, men were ignorant back then and in every so called "Holy Book" that ignorance is reflected(not singling any religions out, im am talking about them all) i have yet to find a SINGLE religion that makes sense, honestly the closest one that makes sense is Raelism which is a UFO religion that states that Yahweh were the names of the aliens that visited earth a long time ago and they created man in their image using Bio-Technology and created Earth using Terraforming technology, and we mistook them for Gods which for a species advsnced enough to travel through space, that scenario is highly plausible, a lot more plausible than the answers of other religions, such as an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient God who has and always will exist yet he exists in a mystical immaterial realm creating everything and he cant even control his creations(such as evil),

Christianity, the belief in a Cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father who sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself and we need to symbolically consume his flesh and pray to him to accept him in our hearts to get rid of some "Original Sin" caused by a talking snake convincing a rib woman, made from the rib of her husband who was made from the dirt, to eat from a magical tree.........i have a demotivational picture like that on my facebook

as far as im concerned religion in general makes no sense

I think you just like the science fiction elements of the Raelians.

Lecks
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18 Dec 2011, 2:42 pm

lunarious wrote:

And how do you get the unbiased perspective?
As a matter of fact, I dont think you need to read the bible to understand God existence (we are about God I presume).
You need to leave everything!
There is a prophetic expression with us, to the extent they can be trusted: "You should give up on someone who has grown up".
The truth is acceisble to children.
Intelligence provides problem solving abilities, children cant solve problems, but they have no problems. Problems comes when the grownups comes ... something like that.

This is incorrect.

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dmm1010
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18 Dec 2011, 2:56 pm

unduki wrote:

Your argument is too generic. Why won't you be more specific? You sound like you're parroting points made by someone else. Did you read this in the Bible?

Here you go; this is just one of many examples from the Bible:

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling [italics mine], ox and sheep, camel and ass" (1 Samuel 15:2-3).

Cue absolutely pathetic responses by Christian apologists, such as the following:

"Moreover, if we believe, as I do, that God’s grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven’s incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives" (William Lane Craig).

This is essentially the same argument that Andrea Yeats used to justify murdering her five children.

dmm1010
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18 Dec 2011, 3:04 pm

At least adherents to Judaism don't try to make excuses for their god. They pretty much just say "He is what He is and if you don't like it He'll smite you." A hating God is much more fun than a loving God anyway. :wink:

NathanealWest
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18 Dec 2011, 3:39 pm

dmm1010 wrote:

The Israelites knew how to party. Joshua, Samson, King David could really blow doors down and get everyone on the dance floor.

Telekon
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18 Dec 2011, 8:44 pm

dmm1010 wrote:

Telekon wrote:

Why is the Christian God an impossible entity? That is a stronger claim than saying there is no evidence for God.

Surely you jest! How can you scoff at the idea of a pink unicorn that has zero relativistic mass, yet see no issue with an anthropomorphic deity who created the Universe from nothing by speaking?

This is burden shifting. Why do I have to prove that God isn't an impossible entity after you've claimed that He is?

Quote:

The Christian God violates so many physical laws I don't even know where to begin.

Why would the Christian God be subject to physical laws?

dmm1010
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18 Dec 2011, 9:38 pm

Telekon wrote:

This is burden shifting. Why do I have to prove that God isn't an impossible entity after you've claimed that He is? [...]

I don't endeavor to shift the burden of proof. YHWH is a possible being if He isn't required to abide by any physical laws, and it's then possible that He created the Universe from nothing. I would ask, however, why must pink unicorns conform to laws from which your God is exempt?

Telekon
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18 Dec 2011, 10:23 pm

dmm1010 wrote:

Telekon wrote:

This is burden shifting. Why do I have to prove that God isn't an impossible entity after you've claimed that He is? [...]

I don't endeavor to shift the burden of proof. YHWH is a possible being if He isn't required to abide by any physical laws, and it's then possible that He created the Universe from nothing.

This contradicts your previous claim that the Christian God is impossible.

Quote:

I would ask, however, why must pink unicorns conform to laws from which your God is exempt?

Because a horse-like creature would have spatial extension. It would exist in the spatio-temporal universe.

unduki
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18 Dec 2011, 11:17 pm

dmm1010 wrote:

I can see where you might think that ONE passage cruel, but the loving Father was protecting His chosen ones. He says it right in the beginning. You remain faithful to me and I'll watch your back. (paraphrased.) As the loving mother of four grown children and grandmother to two, I would not hesitate, for a moment, to completely take out any threat to my offspring.

The Amalekites ambushed the Hebrews at a particularly weak time in their migration. Their numbers were severely diminished. God's chosen people, remember? The Amalekites were extra-vicious fighters, maybe their free choice evolution (breeding) took a bad turn and God used the Hebrews to end their line. Intelligent design... I breed Great Danes. I spay or neuter the ones who don't display my temperament design requirements. I also pay particular attention to heads and toplines. God, evidently likes big noses.

That's just my take on it; my personal opinion. I am a Christian, but not religious. My relationship with God is between Him and me. Please do not put words in my mouth from random Christian apologists chosen to make your point.

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dmm1010
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18 Dec 2011, 11:33 pm

Telekon wrote:

This contradicts your previous claim that the Christian God is impossible.

I stated "the Christian God, as described in the Bible, is just as impossible an entity as my imaginary transcendental unicorn." Neither one is at all impossible assuming they're not required to conform to the physical laws of our Universe.

Quote:

Because a horse-like creature would have spatial extension. It would exist in the spatio-temporal universe.

I think that requirement is artificially imposed by you.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness [italics mine]: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:26-27).

YHWH is seemingly able to exist as an anthropomorphic male deity, yet He is not bound by physical laws as we know them.

Last edited by dmm1010 on 19 Dec 2011, 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

unduki
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19 Dec 2011, 1:29 am

dmm1010 wrote:

YHWH is seemingly able to exist as an anthropomorphic male deity, yet He is not bound by physical laws as we know them.

I think God created the physical laws so He would know how to manipulate them. We also need to take into account that we don't know all there is to know. How much of all there is do you think we actually know? 75%? 20%? 5%? .0002% God knows it all. Silly humans. We're so arrogant in our attempts to limit God to our own understanding.

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dmm1010
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19 Dec 2011, 1:34 am

unduki wrote:

I didn't intend to put words in your mouth, and if I came across that way I apologize. Knowing my replies here are public, I often write them with somewhat of a broadcast scope regardless of whose post I'm quoting.

I'm an atheist. It's my opinion that given the absence of empirical evidence supporting the existence of god(s), the only rational position is one of disbelief.

I take no issue with God's supposed cruelty as narrated in the Bible. God, if He exists, may naturally do as He pleases. However, I cannot abide anyone who attempts to rationalize his or her beliefs in defiance of logical and physical rules; for example, insisting God is omnibenevolent and attempting to reconcile that with Bible passages like the one I quoted.

I rather liked your response. It was much more akin to "God is what He is" than was Craig's. I have no quarrel with you; carry on.

Robdemanc
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20 Dec 2011, 3:05 pm

Here is an interesting idea of the development of religion for social reasons.

Religion as an adaptation

Richard Sosis and Candace Alcorta have reviewed several of the prominent theories for the adaptive value of religion.[1] Many are "social solidarity theories", which view religion as having evolved to enhance cooperation and cohesion within groups. Group membership in turn provides benefits which can enhance an individual's chances for survival and reproduction.

These social solidarity theories may help to explain the painful or dangerous nature of many religious rituals. Costly-signaling theory suggests that such rituals might serve as public and hard to fake signals that an individual's commitment to the group is sincere. Since there would be a considerable benefit in trying to cheat the system - taking advantage of group living benefits without taking on any possible costs - the ritual would not be something simple that can be taken lightly.[1] Warfare is a good example of a cost of group living, and Richard Sosis, Howard C. Kress, and James S. Boster carried out a cross-cultural survey which demonstrated that men in societies which engage in war do submit to the costliest rituals.[2]

unduki
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20 Dec 2011, 11:21 pm

Robdemanc wrote:

Good points. Church is exactly that - the first point. My brother always says if you proved tomorrow that God didn't exist, people would still go to church. The second point, about rituals is interesting. A great Quaker scholar once told me that Man requires ritual. If you read the Bible, you're not going to find any commandment to cross yourself in front of certain statues. Most rituals are man-made.

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