What is your view of "The American Dream?"

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XFilesGeek
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25 Dec 2011, 8:13 pm

Oodain wrote:

XFilesGeek wrote:

Oodain wrote:

XFilesGeek wrote:

I've notice there's a direct positive correlation between bemoaning the hollowness of "materialism" and not being able to afford nice things.

*looks around apartment*
nah :lol:

then again we are talking about the american dream
something that to me is quite different from materialism in itself

Depends on who you ask.

The ability to "move up" is generally associated with the ability to buy "nice things (house, car, ect)."

yes but one can have nice things without the desire to move up,

one can move up and apear to have a lot yet in reality its all owned by others.

Which is why I said it depends on who you ask.

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Sweetleaf
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25 Dec 2011, 9:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

androbot2084 wrote:

If we lived in a Utopia where people cared for each other rather than caring for money would we need smoke shops?

Not traditional smoke shops no, but it might be nice to have a specific place to go if you would like something to smoke or something to smoke out of. But in this utopia there would be no monetary system I imagine so it would not be nessisary to 'sell' or 'buy'.

Goods and services must be exchanged since no one is self sufficient. But in a technically advancing society the combinatorics of barter become completely unworkable which is why money had to be invented. Mathematically it is this. If n goods trade for m goods then by simple barter there are m*n transactions. If money is the intermediate then there are m + n transactions.

That is it in a nutshell. Without money we should all have to live on berries and fish.

Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

ruveyn

In the Utopia self sufficiency would be encouraged.....but yes there would have to be a way to get goods and services to people who need them without a monetary system.....remember this is a hypothetical utopia so don't get to worked up about whether you think it would work or not. Keep your monetary system out of my hypothetical utopia lol.

and why do you assume technology could not be put to use, a currency backed by debt which we have is not nessisary to put technology to use or advance technology. I have to say though I do enjoy berries and fish, both are quite delicious.

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stgiordanobruno
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25 Dec 2011, 9:41 pm

For some I guess it would be a ridiculously long, impractical, gas guzzling and totally unparkable limo.

Sunshine7
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27 Dec 2011, 12:41 pm

What's a smoke shop?

Quote:

Chinese communities actually engage in a lot of bartering, in exchanging of assets such as livestock, in the absence of a monetary medium. It's not just the farmers either, top businessmen do it too, if only because valuation of said assets is too difficult.

No, it's not Utopia; while an element of mutual beneficially outcomes and community is involved, people are essentially trading favours. The downside is that if you're not included in the community, you can barely transact at all. The easiest example are foreigners. There's also a social barrier to moving upward cos you have to know the people at the top, and well enough to trade favours with them.

Last edited by Sunshine7 on 27 Dec 2011, 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Asp-Z
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27 Dec 2011, 12:44 pm

If we had no money and all to trade goods and services, we'd create some sort of mutual good to use as a currency anyway. It's the most efficient way of trading so it will naturally occur no matter what. That's how markets work, whether you're talking about the Dow Jones or a few stalls down the road.

donnie_darko
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27 Dec 2011, 2:06 pm

I think the American Dream is outdated in this day and age. It's based on a concept of infinite growth. It's just not sustainable.

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