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Giftorcurse
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07 Jun 2012, 3:27 pm

Cults, I tell you...


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YippySkippy
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07 Jun 2012, 4:18 pm

I think a lot of birth mothers DO want to keep their baby, but can't because they lack $$$ and support. Then the adoptive parents come along and they're viewed as "rescuing" the mother and baby by taking the baby away. If they were really so selfless, they would financially adopt the mother and help her keep her child. I'm not saying adoptive parents are bad, but they're not heroes. They're getting a child out of the deal, which for many of them is the thing they want most in the world, and they don't spare a backward glance for the bio mother.



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07 Jun 2012, 6:03 pm

I think I can sum this up in three sentences and I think I've phrased it exactly like this before:

Some people have great genes but would be horribly inept parents. Some people would be phenomenal parents but have awful genes. There's nothing wrong with those two groups meeting each other half way.


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ruveyn
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07 Jun 2012, 7:41 pm

Joker wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The birth Mother did not want the responsibility of caring for the child. Since the collective shares the responsibility the burden becomes light.


True but would you want anything to do with your birth mother had she given you up for adoption?


Suppose that giving up for adaption was the best of the available choices? It is not a matter of rejecting the child, but placing the child in the best possible situation. Don't be so quick to judge.

ruveyn



blunnet
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07 Jun 2012, 7:51 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Joker wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The birth Mother did not want the responsibility of caring for the child. Since the collective shares the responsibility the burden becomes light.


True but would you want anything to do with your birth mother had she given you up for adoption?


Suppose that giving up for adaption was the best of the available choices? It is not a matter of rejecting the child, but placing the child in the best possible situation. Don't be so quick to judge.

ruveyn

I would judge the mother choosing adoption over abortion.



Chevand
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08 Jun 2012, 2:37 am

Giftorcurse wrote:
What makes you think an adoptive parent would be any good, huh?


I do not know why you are so vehemently opposed to adoption, or why you seem to have taken such a cynical view of it. I can only speak of my own experience. I myself was adopted, and I must say that I have never felt "unwanted" among my adoptive parents. Not once in my 26 years of life.

I'm honestly not aware of very much concerning the circumstances behind my adoptive parents putting me up for adoption. It was a closed procedure, with most of the information on the legal documents in my possession having been redacted. What I do know is that my biological parents were both in their early twenties, younger than I am now. I believe they may have also been unwed. I assume, from what little I know, they simply did not have the resources to care for me. I really haven't lost any sleep over it, though.

My adoptive parents had been married for ten years, and felt that they needed a child to complete their family. However, for medical reasons, they could not have one of their own, so adopting was their only recourse. I was actually rather fortunate. My parents are the most loving, caring, understanding couple I could have ever hoped for, and I'm glad I was placed in their care. I don't know where you get the idea that adoptive families are "dysfunctional". Mine certainly wasn't, and isn't. When I was growing up, there was plenty of trauma in my life-- but it wasn't caused by my parents. On the contrary, it was from the rest of the environment. It was a hostile place for all of us. But I think, in a way, being surrounded by outside hostility made us a lot closer as a family. I know I'm very lucky I didn't have to deal with trouble within the family as well.

I live on my own now, 4,000 miles away from them. I see them about twice a year-- they come up to Canada at some point during the year when the weather isn't too cold, and I go down to Florida to be with them for Christmas. I enjoy spending time with them. I also speak to my mother on the phone very frequently. I know it may sound bizarre, but I have a very close relationship with her-- she's one of the few people who truly understands pretty much everything about me, and to whom I can talk about anything.

In the interest of setting the record straight regarding my own political beliefs-- I recognize it may be odd considering my own case, but even after having been adopted myself, I am pro-choice. I actually don't think the two things are all that irreconcilable, honestly. I think women should have the choice. That said, I also happen to support adoption as a fine alternative. Not all adoptive families are as prepared and fit to raise children as mine were, I'm sure-- but it doesn't mean some of them aren't, and some families really can give a lot of love to children who otherwise wouldn't have anyone. And besides which, why should something like medical issues prevent a loving couple from raising a child?


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08 Jun 2012, 3:03 am

^Well said.


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Joker
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08 Jun 2012, 1:27 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Joker wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
The birth Mother did not want the responsibility of caring for the child. Since the collective shares the responsibility the burden becomes light.


True but would you want anything to do with your birth mother had she given you up for adoption?


Suppose that giving up for adaption was the best of the available choices? It is not a matter of rejecting the child, but placing the child in the best possible situation. Don't be so quick to judge.

ruveyn


True I understand that.



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31 Jul 2012, 12:22 am

sterfry wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
I'm cynical about cynical teenagers.


:lol:


:P



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31 Jul 2012, 12:26 am

YippySkippy wrote:
I think a lot of birth mothers DO want to keep their baby, but can't because they lack $$$ and support. Then the adoptive parents come along and they're viewed as "rescuing" the mother and baby by taking the baby away. If they were really so selfless, they would financially adopt the mother and help her keep her child. I'm not saying adoptive parents are bad, but they're not heroes. They're getting a child out of the deal, which for many of them is the thing they want most in the world, and they don't spare a backward glance for the bio mother.


It's not the adoptive parents fault that the birth parents couldn't keep the kid. The birth parents either didn't want the kid or or wouldn't or couldn't support the kid and chose to "give up" the kid for adoption. Not the adoptive parents fault.

Kids that don't get adopted often end up in foster care. Shall we blame the foster care system for not "sparing a backward glance for the bio mother?" Not the foster care system's fault, not the adoptive parents fault.



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31 Jul 2012, 12:30 am

Giftorcurse wrote:
What makes you think an adoptive parent would be any good, huh?


For one, the adoptive parent likely at least wants the kid in the first place. It's not like they "oops, I had sex and got pregnant"... they chose to adopt.

Two, they could afford adoption fees, meaning they likely are capable of taking care of themselves and providing for the child. Not another welfare baby mama popping out another welfare baby for money. (Yes, there are those. No, not every mother on welfare is like that, obviously.)

Adoptive parents plan the process of "having" a child. It's not like they just forgot to use birth control and would up with another unplanned kid.

No, not all adoptive parents are good. No, not all biological parents are good, either.

Some people against adoption are that way either because they were adopted and didn't like their adoptive parents, or because they themselves are infertile and bitter/crushed.



mds_02
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31 Jul 2012, 1:48 am

Hyperlexian actually summed up a lot of what I have to say about this topic in another thread about something completely different

hyperlexian wrote:
there is something odd about the power dynamic between some couples if one of them thinks they are doing the other one a favour by bringing them to canada to live. a person who thinks they are rescuing someone else will not put that person on an equal level with them.


The basic idea behind this is true of other types of relationships, not just romantic ones.

Maybe it's more noticeable when at least one of your adoptive parents also has children who are biologically theirs.


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YippySkippy
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31 Jul 2012, 9:14 am

Quote:
It's not the adoptive parents fault that the birth parents couldn't keep the kid. The birth parents either didn't want the kid or or wouldn't or couldn't support the kid and chose to "give up" the kid for adoption. Not the adoptive parents fault.

Kids that don't get adopted often end up in foster care. Shall we blame the foster care system for not "sparing a backward glance for the bio mother?" Not the foster care system's fault, not the adoptive parents fault.


Show me where I said anything was the adoptive parents' fault.
I said they weren't heroes. Big difference.



hanyo
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31 Jul 2012, 2:55 pm

blunnet wrote:
I would judge the mother choosing adoption over abortion.


Which is the "bad" one? I did both.



Giftorcurse
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14 Sep 2012, 8:10 pm

^I tell you, once the biological clock starts ticking, a woman can become unfettered in their resolve to have a kid.


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Inuyasha
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14 Sep 2012, 8:27 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
It's not the adoptive parents fault that the birth parents couldn't keep the kid. The birth parents either didn't want the kid or or wouldn't or couldn't support the kid and chose to "give up" the kid for adoption. Not the adoptive parents fault.

Kids that don't get adopted often end up in foster care. Shall we blame the foster care system for not "sparing a backward glance for the bio mother?" Not the foster care system's fault, not the adoptive parents fault.


Show me where I said anything was the adoptive parents' fault.
I said they weren't heroes. Big difference.


I would take a different stance, the adoptive parents chose to adopt the kid, they could have just let the kid flounder in state-run foster care...

I'm not saying all adoptive parents are good people, but not all of them are bad people either.

Many kids whom are adopted have issues, but many overcome said issues.