Andrew Breitbart Dies at 43

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02 Mar 2012, 8:24 pm

There would be an established economic motive for a signature getter to submit a fake application and leave it there. There is no established economic motive to take it further. No such examples were found..

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Following the publication of the videos, four different independent investigations by various state and city Attorneys General and the GAO released in 2009 and 2010 cleared ACORN, finding its employees had not engaged in criminal activities and that the organization had managed its federal funding appropriately, and calling the videos deceptively and selectively edited to present the workers in the worst possible light. Despite this, by March 2010, 15 of ACORN's 30 state chapters had already closed

The only reason OKeefe didnt get prosecuted himself is that he turned over his raw tapes to California's DA for review. He eventually plead guilty in another case.

LKL
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02 Mar 2012, 8:31 pm

You don't have to take that on faith; what you should accept is the evidence that ACORN itself did not commit fraud, but was defrauded by some of its employees and did its best to make sure that no actual voter fraud occurred. Unlike Breitbart's pal O'Keefe:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/01/11/ ... il-for-it/

simon_says
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02 Mar 2012, 8:43 pm

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Election law expert Rick Hasen, who writes the Election Law Blog, joked in an email to TPM that O’Keefe’s team should “next show how easy it is to rob a bank with a plastic gun.”

That's a funny bit. But like North and Liddy, OKeefe will be seen as a hero no matter what law he breaks.

ruveyn
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02 Mar 2012, 8:49 pm

LKL wrote:

The boss bears full and total responsibility for whatever any of his employees do. The wrong doing happened on his watch. He gets to climb the scaffold.

If we hold management responsible for what the crew does, then perhaps they will be more careful in who they hire.

ruveyn

simon_says
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02 Mar 2012, 8:52 pm

Newt Gingrich didn't get on the VIrginia ballot because he turned in 1,500 fake names. Should we tar and feather him or just assume that overly eager signature getters cut some corners?

Do you think these imaginary people will show up and demand social security next year? Personally, I think they are going to go on rampage and kidnap a bunch of white girls.

ruveyn
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02 Mar 2012, 8:55 pm

simon_says wrote:

Newt Gingrich didn't get on the VIrginia ballot because he turned in 1,500 fake names. Should we tar and feather him or just assume that overly eager signature getters cut some corners?

.

Absolutely. When people are made to answer for their lack of care, they will care more in the future.

Bring back flogging and the stocks!

ruveyn

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02 Mar 2012, 9:02 pm

simon_says wrote:

I did not know that. I have to wonder if Newt was at all in the loop concerning the false signatures.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

simon_says
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02 Mar 2012, 9:09 pm

Well, he says it was fraud committed by one guy he paid and that it was ultimately "just a mistake". And he's white so that should be good enough. I'm sure the fake names even sounded white so that's doubly cool.

Of course, I believe that these invisible people will steal our nuclear secrets and destroy the Republic. I don't have evidence of it, but that's what I believe and no facts will ever change my mind.

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02 Mar 2012, 11:17 pm

ruveyn wrote:

LKL wrote:

So hold 'em accountable for collecting a few thousand worthless registration forms.

I mean what was the net negative effect?

blauSamstag
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02 Mar 2012, 11:20 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

So I'll take it in faith then that every individual employees fraud consisted of names that were as supernatural as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Errol Flynn, Dirk Diggler for the sake of getting one over on their bosses and not having any of the entries listed filled out by anyone.

Even if they didn't. Even if they turned in forms for people who were dead or nonexistent.

What was the effect? Someone still has to show up at the polling place with valid ID.

Master_Pedant
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02 Mar 2012, 11:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:

simon_says wrote:

Newt Gingrich didn't get on the VIrginia ballot because he turned in 1,500 fake names. Should we tar and feather him or just assume that overly eager signature getters cut some corners?

.

Absolutely. When people are made to answer for their lack of care, they will care more in the future.

Bring back flogging and the stocks!

ruveyn

You know, ruveyn, for someone who likes to whine about government inefficiency all the time, you sure seem happy with some of the perverse incentives that go on in many departments. Namely, the excessive concern with any procedural error to the point where process trumps results or to the point where the marginal cost of particular safeguards way outweigh the marginal benefit.

But please, ruveyn, ignore reality yet again and go read summaries of Hobbes for the 1000th time, thinking that it'll spur something new in your mind.

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techstepgenr8tion
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02 Mar 2012, 11:24 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Even if they didn't. Even if they turned in forms for people who were dead or nonexistent.

What was the effect? Someone still has to show up at the polling place with valid ID.

That's just it though, dead and nonexistent people *do* vote all the time. That's nothing new either.

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blauSamstag
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02 Mar 2012, 11:26 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Even if they didn't. Even if they turned in forms for people who were dead or nonexistent.

What was the effect? Someone still has to show up at the polling place with valid ID.

That's just it though, dead and nonexistent people *do* vote all the time. That's nothing new either.

And if Acorn suspected that forms had been filled out as part of a conspiracy to commit voter fraud, what should they have done about it?

Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2012, 12:05 am

simon_says wrote:

Well, I suppose as long as Newt is white...

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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03 Mar 2012, 7:28 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

That's just it though, dead and nonexistent people *do* vote all the time. That's nothing new either.

In Chicago and Boston the dead vote early and often.

ruveyn

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03 Mar 2012, 2:04 pm

ruveyn wrote:

LKL wrote:

BS. Employees are human beings, not computer programs designed by their employer.

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