Is it morally wrong to burn the Qur'an?

Page 6 of 7 [ 100 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,807

17 Mar 2012, 3:53 am

I don't think that there is anything morally wrong with destroying a book that there are lots of other copies of.

However, I think that it is probably counterproductive if the goal is supposed to be the destruction of Islam. It transforms what should be a matter of truth and reason into a matter of politics and emotion. If you think that Islam is false, you should explain why you think that it is false. There should be public debates about whether Islam is true, and books written about whether Islam is true, and a culture of open-mindedness. Nobody was ever won over to anything by being insulted.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

17 Mar 2012, 3:57 am

Declension wrote:

Debates are a waste of time. People believe what they feel like believing.

ruveyn

Declension
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,807

17 Mar 2012, 4:04 am

ruveyn wrote:

Debates are a waste of time. People believe what they feel like believing.

I am not as cynical as you about people's open-mindedness. We all believe things that we didn't used to believe. How did this happen? Well, maybe it wasn't always as a result of rational debate, but it was never as a result of someone burning our favourite book.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

17 Mar 2012, 4:07 am

Declension wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Debates are a waste of time. People believe what they feel like believing.

Burning books is an active way of insulting people. It has nothing to do with being rational.

ruveyn

Declension
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,807

17 Mar 2012, 4:19 am

ruveyn wrote:

Burning books is an active way of insulting people. It has nothing to do with being rational.

Well then here's the irony of the situation: self-proclaimed "Culture Warriors" who do things like burn the Koran are not actually very effective fighters in the Culture War. If they were really serious about destroying Islam, they would adopt the much more brutal tactics of wishy-washy liberals like me. Unless they think that we can destroy Islam by killing all Muslims. That sounds like the worst tactic ever.

NarcissusSavage
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

17 Mar 2012, 5:40 am

Declension wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Burning books is an active way of insulting people. It has nothing to do with being rational.

What are the "brutal tactics of wishy-washy liberals"?

Dealing with religious fundamentalism, and dogmatic extremism is not an easy proposition. But doing nothing is not the answer. Burning a book might not be the best answer. Drawing comics of Muhammad might not be the best answer. But reason doesn't really work against fundamentalists. The only hope I see is to mock them, and incite them, in hopes of ostracizing them from moderates of their faith with whom reason and rational thought might reach. I’m always open to better ways of dealing with them…there just doesn’t seem to be many floating around.

_________________
I am Ignostic.
Go ahead and define god, with universal acceptance of said definition.
I'll wait.

Declension
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,807

17 Mar 2012, 6:12 am

NarcissusSavage wrote:

What are the "brutal tactics of wishy-washy liberals"?

Let the Muslims present their best arguments for why they think that Islam is true, and then try to find something wrong with the arguments. Make it clear that being wrong about something does not make you a bad person, and that we are all wrong about many things. Appeal to universal human notions of fairness and free debate instead of buying into the idea that people come with labels attached.

heavenlyabyss
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Sep 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,393

17 Mar 2012, 7:08 am

It's a freaking book. Who the hell cares. Same thing with the Christian Bible or the American flag. These things mean nothing to me. They are symbols of false lies and nothing more.

If the sole purpose of the Quran is to cause offense then it may be inappropriate in certain contexts but it is not immoral.

puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

17 Mar 2012, 7:10 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:

If the sole purpose of the Quran is to cause offense

I wish that was its sole purpose. :lol:

_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.

NarcissusSavage
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

17 Mar 2012, 7:27 am

Declension wrote:

NarcissusSavage wrote:

What are the "brutal tactics of wishy-washy liberals"?

Yeah...that approach really isn't working. I'm not so sure fairness or free debate is universal notions either. There are fundamental Muslims who would happily behead you for even asking why they think Islam is true, simply because your question implies it is possible that it isn't.

These are not sane, rational people.

The moderate Muslims that would even entertain such a conversation will not really do so in a truly civil or rational manner. It is the very, very rare Muslim that will have an open conversation about the religion....and that is exactly the guy you don't need to worry about trying to martyr himself...it's the one who wants to behead you for not being Muslim!

_________________
I am Ignostic.
Go ahead and define god, with universal acceptance of said definition.
I'll wait.

AstroGeek
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,582

17 Mar 2012, 1:38 pm

400 years (500 at most) ago Christianity was just as oppressive a religion as Islam is now. I am pretty sure that modernity will have its way on fundamentalists, no matter what creed they follow.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

17 Mar 2012, 1:43 pm

AstroGeek wrote:

400 years (500 at most) ago Christianity was just as oppressive a religion as Islam is now. I am pretty sure that modernity will have its way on fundamentalists, no matter what creed they follow.

Islam has been around for 700 years and shows not a single sign of detoxifying itself.

Judaism used to be as bad a** as Islam is now. Several thousand years of being beat up and exiled have finally taught Jews how to live tolerably well with other folks. The same may have to be done to Islam. Defeat them in wars, humiliate them, grind their faces into the mud and break their backs. Then Islam may transform itself into a tolerable religion.

ruveyn

AspieRogue

17 Mar 2012, 1:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:

AstroGeek wrote:

400 years (500 at most) ago Christianity was just as oppressive a religion as Islam is now. I am pretty sure that modernity will have its way on fundamentalists, no matter what creed they follow.

This is not going to happen. Nor is Islam going to ever go away...........I honestly am more angered by Quran burning than bible burning, even though I'm neither Muslim nor Christian. The reason for that has to do with the fact that I view Christianity as a tool used to make people submissive/keep them in their place and uphold the establishment. Islam, at least to me living in the USofA, is sort of a violent opposition to the Western establishment whereas Jews have effectively joined it.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

17 Mar 2012, 2:06 pm

AspieRogue wrote:

I honestly am more angered by Quran burning than bible burning.

I'm not. I have a sneaking regard when I see more educated people doing it, even though I know it's not nice.

Last edited by Tequila on 17 Mar 2012, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

17 Mar 2012, 2:08 pm

AspieRogue wrote:

The reason for that has to do with the fact that I view Christianity as a tool used to make people submissive/keep them in their place and uphold the establishment.

Imagine the same with Christianity but far, far more barbaric in Muslim countries. Stoning women to death, killing gays, putting women in burqas, marrying off pre-teen girls, and all other kinds of fun.

We've seen the sort of stuff that Muslims get up to in Britain and Europe - with the tacit acceptance of the political class - and a lot of people here are sick to the back teeth of it.

ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

17 Mar 2012, 4:20 pm

AspieRogue wrote:

Christians don't typically murder dozens of people over cartoons.
In the most populous Christian nations, there's an argument over insurance coverage of birth control.
In the most populous Islamic nation, bride burnings and STONING RAPE VICTIMS is the norm.

To compare the two is laughable.

_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."

Page 6 of 7 [ 100 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next

Jump to:

Is it morally wrong to burn the Qur'an? Post Reply New Topic

Is it morally wrong to burn the Qur'an?