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Florida, where murder is legal

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Tadzio
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24 Mar 2012, 9:01 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
So, you cited a portion of the FL law that deals exclusively with LEO (Law Enorcement Officers), and cited a bunch of nonsense from the Brady Campaign? Go read up on it somewhere that's NOT biased...


Raptor wrote:
Well I quickly read through all the drivel but this pretty much sums up the gist of your cause in this thread and others like it:

Quote:
“All you have to say is that you reasonably believed you were threatened, and the only person who can dispute that is the person you have just killed,” says Daniel Vice of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.


"Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence", what a laugh.... :lol:

I won't even ask what Bush has to do with all this..........

A double eye-roll for you.
:roll: :roll:


Hi sliqua-jcooter & Raptor,

Your difficulties in following references in the Law through the codifications of the sub-parts of the Laws is not a Legal Excuse for Ignorance of the Law. Ask Raptor for his own post of the law, and Raptor, your posting of the Law led to another result of the absurdity of this law to the very same supporters of this law. "LEO" is for an exception to the newer law, to protect LEO, not any protection to the prey from the velociraptors/vultures and rattlesnakes "free-killing" from the law.

Your finding any attempts to prevent needless gun violence as "a laugh", well, "The Future" as in the works of Leonard Cohen, seems more and more plausible.

"Natural Born Killers" and Rattlesnakes always have survival of the fittest as a "keep your ground" defense, and the newer membership of boundless gun usage numbers seem to be a portending of an epidemic of reap what you sow.

Do you find all other Laws laughable too???

Tadzio



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24 Mar 2012, 9:04 pm

My cousin, who had just got out of the army, stayed at our house for a few months, noticed that someone was in the yard. They were looking through the basement window like they were going to break in it. He darted out with a gun and told the guy to move along, which he did.

Turns out, the gun was a cigarette lighter.

Maybe we only need cigarette lighters to defend ourselves.

Until the crooks catch on.



sliqua-jcooter
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24 Mar 2012, 9:10 pm

snapcap wrote:
My cousin, who had just got out of the army, stayed at our house for a few months, noticed that someone was in the yard. They were looking through the basement window like they were going to break in it. He darted out with a gun and told the guy to move along, which he did.

Turns out, the gun was a cigarette lighter.

Maybe we only need cigarette lighters to defend ourselves.

Until the crooks catch on.


This is precisely why I carry openly, as opposed to concealed. You don't need to shoot someone for your gun to stop bad things from happening.



John_Browning
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24 Mar 2012, 9:15 pm

This case really needs to be left to a real court and jury.


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sliqua-jcooter
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24 Mar 2012, 9:16 pm

Cornflake wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
My town is the safest place I've ever been, and it's because almost everybody in town is armed. Really. It's in the middle of nowhere, so people aren't just passing through and see a good store to rob.
(...)
It's not so safe because the townspeople are particularly moral either, we have the usual amount of drug and domestic violence and DUI crime, and bounced checks, etc. We just don't have people doing things they know they are going to get shot over. There hasn't been a shooting here in a long, long time. Not even an accidental one.
Isn't it strange, because I can say exactly the same thing about my town - where it's totally illegal to be armed in the sense that America allows it, and we have never, ever had a shooting here. Not one.


Both of these situations sound like the small population is the one deterring crime, not the fact of guns being present/absent.

However, what's important is that there is no evidence that suggests that areas that enact strict gun control laws impact gun-related crime rates *at all*.



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24 Mar 2012, 9:25 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
However, what's important is that there is no evidence that suggests that areas that enact strict gun control laws impact gun-related crime rates *at all*.
Well, "illegal" is a pretty strict gun control yet we have no gun crime - in my town. I'm inclined to believe that's because people know it's illegal, understand why - so they don't do it.
It's too late to test this in the USA; things are pretty much out of control - even before "the right to bear arms" issue is waved around.


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sliqua-jcooter
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24 Mar 2012, 9:36 pm

Cornflake wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
However, what's important is that there is no evidence that suggests that areas that enact strict gun control laws impact gun-related crime rates *at all*.
Well, "illegal" is a pretty strict gun control yet we have no gun crime - in my town. I'm inclined to believe that's because people know it's illegal, understand why - so they don't do it.
It's too late to test this in the USA; things are pretty much out of control - even before "the right to bear arms" issue is waved around.


There is a problem with no-one having guns - and that is that it makes it so much easier for an oppresive regime to seize power. Many of the most oppressive dictatorships throughout history came to power by force, and succeeded because the populace was unable to put up much resistance. That was the original intent of the Founding Fathers when they wrote the 2nd amendment.

I applaud all the places where gun violence isn't a common occurance - however I don't think that those places have low gun violence because carrying/owning guns is heavily regulated. Switzerland is a very good example of a country that has ridiculously low gun violence levels, yet the vast majority of citizens own and carry guns legally.

Brazil is a good example of a country where the opposite is true. Brazil has some of the toughest gun laws in the world - yet they have the highest gun violence rate anywhere (when adjusted for populace). The tough gun laws did nothing to slow down the gun violence rate, and it continues to climb.



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24 Mar 2012, 9:41 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:

Quote:
My town is the safest place I've ever been, and it's because almost everybody in town is armed. Really. It's in the middle of nowhere, so people aren't just passing through and see a good store to rob. We had a store robbed here several years ago but that's it. It turned out that it was set up by the manager. Nobody locks their doors or cars here, and in fact many people leave their keys in their cars. Everybody here knows that everybody else is armed. Nobody is going to try anything stupid like robbery, etc.
It's not so safe because the townspeople are particularly moral either, we have the usual amount of drug and domestic violence and DUI crime, and bounced checks, etc. We just don't have people doing things they know they are going to get shot over. There hasn't been a shooting here in a long, long time. Not even an accidental one. Not only do the folks here carry guns, they grow up learning how to safely handle them.

These anti-gun people here will never acknowledge anything like that since it goes against their beliefs.
By their logic I guess we should all stop wearing our seatbelts and disable our airbags so there won't be any car accidents….


Tadzio wrote:
Quote:
Your finding any attempts to prevent needless gun violence as "a laugh"


I find your and others here eagerness to enable criminals under the guise of saving lives to be immoral.
It’s the irony, to put it very lightly, of your arguments that I find laughable when I actually read them…..


John_Browning wrote:
Quote:
This case really needs to be left to a real court and jury.

Too late, the media has already hung him….sans the trial.



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24 Mar 2012, 9:44 pm

Raptor wrote:
These anti-gun people here will never acknowledge anything like that since it goes against their beliefs.
By their logic I guess we should all stop wearing our seatbelts and disable our airbags so there won't be any car accidents….
Yep, that's pretty much what I thought you'd come up with...


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sliqua-jcooter
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24 Mar 2012, 9:48 pm

Raptor wrote:
These anti-gun people here will never acknowledge anything like that since it goes against their beliefs.
By their logic I guess we should all stop wearing our seatbelts and disable our airbags so there won't be any car accidents….


Everyone here, bar a few, are bringing up intelligent points - and actually having a positive discussion. Dismissing people's opinions (especially when well thought out) is counterintuitive.



OliveOilMom
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24 Mar 2012, 9:51 pm

Cornflake wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
My town is the safest place I've ever been, and it's because almost everybody in town is armed. Really. It's in the middle of nowhere, so people aren't just passing through and see a good store to rob.
(...)
It's not so safe because the townspeople are particularly moral either, we have the usual amount of drug and domestic violence and DUI crime, and bounced checks, etc. We just don't have people doing things they know they are going to get shot over. There hasn't been a shooting here in a long, long time. Not even an accidental one.
Isn't it strange, because I can say exactly the same thing about my town - where it's totally illegal to be armed in the sense that America allows it, and we have never, ever had a shooting here. Not one.


I believe you. It will work with either everybody has guns, or nobody has guns. I'm very much in favor of the second ammendment, but it's obvious that if you don't have guns you can't have gun violence. Of course people can find other weapons, but that's not what I was talking about.

I've heard lots of people say that if everybody had guns, things would be bedlam. It's not. I've also heard people say that if nobody had guns, things would be bedlam. It's not. I think we get bedlam when the wrong people get the guns, and there just isn't a viable way of preventing that.

So, I dunno what to do about it. I'm glad it's not a problem that I'm supposed to solve, because I can't.


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sliqua-jcooter
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24 Mar 2012, 9:54 pm

^ this



PM
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24 Mar 2012, 9:57 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
snapcap wrote:
My cousin, who had just got out of the army, stayed at our house for a few months, noticed that someone was in the yard. They were looking through the basement window like they were going to break in it. He darted out with a gun and told the guy to move along, which he did.

Turns out, the gun was a cigarette lighter.

Maybe we only need cigarette lighters to defend ourselves.

Until the crooks catch on.


This is precisely why I carry openly, as opposed to concealed. You don't need to shoot someone for your gun to stop bad things from happening.


You are lucky you live in a state where that is legal. Here, CCW is perfectly legal, but while this states law says OC is "legal", the Police do not.


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sliqua-jcooter
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24 Mar 2012, 10:04 pm

Luck has nothing to do with it - we fought very hard to get the police to respect our rights.



Jacoby
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24 Mar 2012, 10:28 pm

PM wrote:
sliqua-jcooter wrote:
snapcap wrote:
My cousin, who had just got out of the army, stayed at our house for a few months, noticed that someone was in the yard. They were looking through the basement window like they were going to break in it. He darted out with a gun and told the guy to move along, which he did.

Turns out, the gun was a cigarette lighter.

Maybe we only need cigarette lighters to defend ourselves.

Until the crooks catch on.


This is precisely why I carry openly, as opposed to concealed. You don't need to shoot someone for your gun to stop bad things from happening.


You are lucky you live in a state where that is legal. Here, CCW is perfectly legal, but while this states law says OC is "legal", the Police do not.


Same. Open carry has been "legal" here for a while but cops would arrest you for disorderly conduct if you exercised that right. It was messed up since concealed carry wasn't legal here until just last year. Now CCW is only illegal in Illinois.



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24 Mar 2012, 10:34 pm

Raptor wrote:
I find your and others here eagerness to enable criminals under the guise of saving lives to be immoral.


Hi Raptor,

I know that the doctrine of "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" is so much balderdash in actual practice (after the "day" in court, it is limited to "not guilty", as "innocence" is never ruled established (just ask famous people found not guilty, or "immune' to prosecution)), but to hold a victim as necessarily a "criminal" because a trigger-happy killer claims the need for an unfettered opportunity to kill more people in the future after killing the victim, is absurd.

Of course, the natural born killer will find the victim killed as an immoral inferior otherwise violating the law of survival, as the only law left to be followed. The Laws of Society are suppose to take precedence, not subservience, to such bestiality.

The "enable" part applies more to allowing the gun-totters to tote, by maybe a more-and-more appearing fool hearty acceptance of the Second Amendment being etched in stone. Just looking the other way also seems less & less likely as any plausible defense for even a Nihilistic judgement day.

Tadzio