Any Stalinists around these parts?

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edgewaters
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01 Aug 2012, 10:37 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Nonsense, Libertarians are for the free market. That is about as far away from fascism as it can get.

They are for dog-eat-dog, unrestrained power to the powerful, enforced by a government which does nothing but use its monopoly on violence to protect the rights that are of concern to the powerful - all else being ignored.

JakobVirgil
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01 Aug 2012, 10:44 pm

edgewaters wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Nonsense, Libertarians are for the free market. That is about as far away from fascism as it can get.

An element of fascism is a hatred for the weak than that is most certainly embedded in libertarianism.

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JakobVirgil
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01 Aug 2012, 11:19 pm

nominalist wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

I you sure you won? I can't remember which game we are playing.

In the usual rules of debate, making an ad hominem attack is a disqualification.

JakobVirgil wrote:

My impression of your word of God tone comes from your habit of declaiming rather than making solid arguments.

That is another ad hominem attack.

JakobVirgil wrote:

Whose methods? the author of the paper now you are just playing right?

That makes no sense.

JakobVirgil wrote:

Finally we have driven past your ego and reached the actually interesting part of your post.

Yet another ad hominem attack. This is getting tiring. Conversation over.

Ah shucks I was looking forward to more unexplained proclamations from on high.

I think you may have a misunderstanding of the term ad hominem.
It means arguing that the character of a person makes his view wrong.

"to the man"

I did no such thing I did not say you were wrong because of your tone I said you were annoying because of your tone.
Or more importantly your style of declamation did not produce compelling arguments.

The Irony here is that your declaration of "winning" because of my ad hom was in -get this-
an ad hominem argument.

To make it easier for you.
ad hominem does not equal an insult.

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Jacoby
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02 Aug 2012, 6:08 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

edgewaters wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Nonsense, Libertarians are for the free market. That is about as far away from fascism as it can get.

An element of fascism is a hatred for the weak than that is most certainly embedded in libertarianism.

In way does it support that? 'The powerful' = the government and the less central government there is the less power 'the powerful' have.

Ridiculous generalization. How much have you two volunteered or given to charity recently?(Rhetorical question, no need to have a pissing contest about this) I don't have to ordered by someone with a gun to do good, I don't find theft from others as a form of compassion.

JakobVirgil
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02 Aug 2012, 9:22 am

Jacoby wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

edgewaters wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Nonsense, Libertarians are for the free market. That is about as far away from fascism as it can get.

An element of fascism is a hatred for the weak than that is most certainly embedded in libertarianism.

How about I add the word most in there between "in" and "libertarianism" ?
Objectivism certainly hates the "weak" and don't tell me miss Rosenbaum is not a player in the scene.

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Jacoby
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02 Aug 2012, 1:55 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

How about I add the word most in there between "in" and "libertarianism" ?
Objectivism certainly hates the "weak" and don't tell me miss Rosenbaum is not a player in the scene.

Objectivism and Libertarianism share a few beliefs but Objectivism encompasses way more than just political and economic matters. Ayn Rand didn't invent the ideas of limited government or the free market. She wasn't fond of libertarians and pretty much hated everyone that didn't follow her complete philosophy for the exact same reasons she did.

JakobVirgil
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02 Aug 2012, 2:04 pm

Jacoby wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

How about I add the word most in there between "in" and "libertarianism" ?
Objectivism certainly hates the "weak" and don't tell me miss Rosenbaum is not a player in the scene.

I Can't fight the truth. We all know Alisa was an old shrew and bossy as hell.
The question is how many libertarians are influenced by her weakness hating fetishization of the industrialist and how many are classic liberals?

The libertarians of the Right that I am in acquaintance with sure like to read Atlas Shrugged.
Ron Paul and Paul Ryan included.

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Jacoby
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02 Aug 2012, 2:32 pm

Enjoying someone's novels doesn't necessarily mean they wholeheartedly embrace her entire belief system. Ron Paul was close to Murray Rothbard and Rothbard and Rand personally hated each other with a passion. Rothbard likened her to a cult leader.

JakobVirgil
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02 Aug 2012, 2:56 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Not seeing her views as aberrant and silly does say something about a person.
Her list of feuds is hilarious apparently everyone that did not accept her as the messiah.

Bill Buckley's national review published a negative review of atlas shrugged
she would not attend any function he was attending.

Quote:

From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: “To a gas chamber — go!”

you can read the whole thing here.
[[http://whittakerchambers.org/articles/nr/bigsister/]]

It is one of the best conservative critiques of Objectivism something you can hardly find today.

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Jacoby
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02 Aug 2012, 5:49 pm

You'd probably enjoy Murray Rothbard's one act play satirizing Ayn Rand and her follows called "Mozart Was A Red".

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/mozart.html

Kraichgauer
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02 Aug 2012, 11:48 pm

Not to get off subject, but while I've never read Rand's Atlas Shrugged, I did read her Anthem back in high school. My number one impression that I came away with was how badly it was written.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

edgewaters
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03 Aug 2012, 12:22 am

Jacoby wrote:

In way does it support that? 'The powerful' = the government and the less central government there is the less power 'the powerful' have.

That was true in the 1700s, but corporations today are much more powerful than national governments - they can bring down national governments or buy them with ease. Many have budgets much larger than most governments, and the careers of politicians live and die by their whim. Also ... they know everything about you, down to where you stopped for coffee an hour ago, and exactly what you ordered. Who your friends are (depending on your use of the internet) and often exactly what you think, politically. Even Hitler and Stalin never dreamed of that much power and control over such a wide swath of the population. And ok, perhaps you personally don't use debit or facebook, but many many people do.

If you want to know who the power is in a society, just look at the skyline of the cities. In medieval times - castle towers and church steeples dominated, reflecting the power of nobility and clergy. In the imperialist era - church steeples (still), post offices and town halls, the latter two being symbols of government and empire. In modern times - corporate skyscrapers blot out the sun.

JakobVirgil
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03 Aug 2012, 10:14 am

Jacoby wrote:

You'd probably enjoy Murray Rothbard's one act play satirizing Ayn Rand and her follows called "Mozart Was A Red".

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/mozart.html

Freaking awesome Libertarian infighting satire you made my day.

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ruveyn
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05 Aug 2012, 7:54 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

You'd probably enjoy Murray Rothbard's one act play satirizing Ayn Rand and her follows called "Mozart Was A Red".

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/mozart.html

Freaking awesome Libertarian infighting satire you made my day.

Do you have a problem with Objecvtivism or Objectivists?

ruveyn

ruveyn
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05 Aug 2012, 8:01 am

We can argue about whether Stalin was a fascist or not. But one thing for sure, he was a thug, a gangster and a monster.

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
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05 Aug 2012, 9:35 am

ruveyn wrote:

JakobVirgil wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

You'd probably enjoy Murray Rothbard's one act play satirizing Ayn Rand and her follows called "Mozart Was A Red".

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/mozart.html

Freaking awesome Libertarian infighting satire you made my day.

Do you have a problem with Objecvtivism or Objectivists?

ruveyn

Both I guess, it is bunch of silliness based on discarded social science.

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Last edited by JakobVirgil on 05 Aug 2012, 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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