10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

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PM
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03 Mar 2013, 6:59 pm

Both parties are made up of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich.

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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2013, 7:01 pm

Yes, but the Republicans are less likely to support the cause of the common people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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03 Mar 2013, 8:18 pm

Ah, but the Democrats want to control the common people. Gun control and the "War on Obesity" are two prime examples of said control.

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sliqua-jcooter
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03 Mar 2013, 8:26 pm

Since when did this turn into politics? I thought we were talking about guns...

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03 Mar 2013, 8:58 pm

My earlier observation turned into a debate, you may carry on with your gun talk.

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Dragoness
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03 Mar 2013, 10:04 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm talking about an absolute military defeat at the hands of guerrillas.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

1.england loses american revoution
2.america lost vietnam
3.russia lost afganistan
4.america is still unable to completley wipe the taliban out of afganistan.

gorrilla warefare beats big militaries all the time

Contrary to popular belief, the American revolution wasn't won by guerrillas, but by the Continental Army, which was trained by Von Steuben to fight in the Prussian style - and the Prussian army was the best trained in the world.
As for the other examples - I heartily agree. If you check my previous posts in this thread, you'll find I had written how guerrilla fighters usually hold out long enough till the occupying professional army eventually just throw up their hands and go home. What I said specifically was that it was rare for a guerrilla force to outright destroy a professional army.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The Continental Army used guerrilla warfare a lot so they wouldn't get annihilated by the British. The Continental Army wouldn't have survived if they met the British face-to-face. So yes, the American Revolution is an example.

By the way, vermontsavant, I meant that I agreed with you.

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03 Mar 2013, 10:15 pm

PM wrote:

Ah, but the Democrats want to control the common people. Gun control and the "War on Obesity" are two prime examples of said control.

Well, the government has to have some control over the common people - otherwise their is complete and utter anarchy and chaos. The government is worried about gun control because it doesn't want gun-wielding psychos to shoot people dead.
And by the way, about one-third of the population is obese, and 100,000-400,000 people die due to obesity. So it's a big problem. Then again, I'm not sure if the government should have any say on that matter, because how much someone weighs is more or less the result of each individual person's actions, and no one really has the right to say what another person should do with their body.

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03 Mar 2013, 10:15 pm

Dragoness wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm talking about an absolute military defeat at the hands of guerrillas.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Despite making middle of the night escapes, and other secretive movements, the Continental Army was still a professional army, with all the discipline and training that entails. While there were in fact guerrilla bands fighting in the Revolutionary War, their effectiveness in most cases was a matter of debate, their behavior was atrocious, and they had a bad habit of constantly switching sides.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2013, 10:19 pm

PM wrote:

Ah, but the Democrats want to control the common people. Gun control and the "War on Obesity" are two prime examples of said control.

Regulating machines of death, and promoting good health hardly compares to cutting social programs, vilifying and disenfranchising the poor and minorities, and giving tax breaks to the wealthy who need them the least.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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03 Mar 2013, 10:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Never heard of Francis Marion?

Kraichgauer wrote:

As for the other examples - I heartily agree. If you check my previous posts in this thread, you'll find I had written how guerrilla fighters usually hold out long enough till the occupying professional army eventually just throw up their hands and go home. What I said specifically was that it was rare for a guerrilla force to outright destroy a professional army.

No one in this thread said anything about an army surrendering to guerillas, that’s just something you’ve harped on for no apparent reason.

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03 Mar 2013, 10:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Guns are not "Machines of Death" as the Brady Bunch would have you believe, and the way the dems are promoting healthy living will turn junk food into the next crack cocaine. The Republicans are equally wrong for what they do.

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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2013, 10:37 pm

Raptor wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Never heard of Francis Marion?

Kraichgauer wrote:

No one in this thread said anything about an army surrendering to guerillas, that’s just something you’ve harped on for no apparent reason.

I brought that up to illustrate that guerrilla armies rarely defeat professional armies out right, and that's how wars are won. And as for the U.S. pulling out if Vietnam mentioned as a success of guerrillas - that had as much, or more, to do with American public opinion against the war.

While the name Francis Marion sounds familiar, I'm afraid I have to ask you to refresh my memory.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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03 Mar 2013, 10:44 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

You miss an important part of the effectiveness of guerrilla warfare.

Kraichgauer wrote:

While the name Francis Marion sounds familiar, I'm afraid I have to ask you to refresh my memory.

Google it.

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sliqua-jcooter
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03 Mar 2013, 10:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Dress it up however you'd like - but at the end of the day the guerrillas in Vietnam fended off one of the best military powers in the world for years - before they finally gave up and went home. Going back to the original point of all of this - if there ever was to be a war fought on American soil - you would have to contend with roughly half the American populace.

That makes victory an untenable position - as it would necessitate the near-destruction of much of the country.

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Kraichgauer
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03 Mar 2013, 10:55 pm

But do you seriously think anyone - outside of Red Dawn movie world - could invade the United States, and defeat the American armed forces?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

sliqua-jcooter
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03 Mar 2013, 11:05 pm

With the state of the world as it is now - no. But that's not really the point.

The deterrent works equally well against internal threats. If we were ever to face a government that wished to abuse its power to such a point that the people would revolt - they would have to deal with an armed civilian population that drastically outnumbers the standing army (even before individuals in the army refused to fight because of the atrocities). That position is also untenable - which creates a system where the Government has to provide the fundamental liberties that the people enjoy.

People often take that to mean that I'm advocating the violent overthrow of the government, or that I think it's going to happen - just the opposite. As long as the government faces swift annihilation in retaliation for their abusing our rights - our rights will never be abused.

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