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Should Barack Obama be impeached?
Yes 39%  39%  [ 24 ]
No 61%  61%  [ 37 ]
Total votes : 61

wittgenstein
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15 Jun 2013, 8:55 am

My point is that the government can ( constitutional ammendments are difficult and rare,but possible) do something legal that is unethical. For example (I am not saying that they would do the following extreme action. I am using such an extreme example to show that they can do anything if they follow procedure) they could pass a law that said everyone must supply the government with detailed information about their neighbours.
Actually, Obama can be legally impeached. (if the courts enforced the law without making exceptions. Indefinite detention is unconstitutional *). He destroyed the bill of rights. Without the right to a trial all our other rights are meaningless.
* Yes, Lincoln also violated the constitution. At least the Civil war was less then 5 years. The "war" (ya right, it has something to do with terrorism ) will last many decades. By the way, I voted for Obama twice! He is horrible but the alternatives were worse. Those were the only "choices" they gave us. Obama was fast tracked because he gives us the illusion that we can vote against the Republican's war on freedom.
PS: I agree the law has little in common with ethics or justice.


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Dox47
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15 Jun 2013, 3:28 pm

The Obama defenders' position:

  • Well, his actions were technically legal, as far as we know.
  • The American people were asking for this.
  • Republicans are scary.


Real compelling stuff guys.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2013, 3:33 pm

Dox47 wrote:
The Obama defenders' position:
  • Well, his actions were technically legal, as far as we know.
  • The American people were asking for this.
  • Republicans are scary.

Real compelling stuff guys.


Regardless, he's better than Bush, and Bush was never impeached.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



seaturtleisland
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15 Jun 2013, 4:44 pm

Dox47 wrote:
The Obama defenders' position:
  • Well, his actions were technically legal, as far as we know.
  • The American people were asking for this.
  • Republicans are scary.

Real compelling stuff guys.


Well it is compelling because presidents aren't supposed to be impeached every time the voters get it wrong. They're supposed to be punished at the following election. That's how it's worked with so many other terrible presidents. Why should we make an exception for Barrack Obama?



wittgenstein
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15 Jun 2013, 5:11 pm

I agree that Obama is way better then Bush. The only reason I am against impeachment is that that only aids a greater evil, those that believe ALL power should be turned over to international corporations. Obama "only" wants them to have 80%. He never went after the traitors on Wall Street that ruined our economy. He even kept them in government.*
Suppose a guy robs a bank and gets away with it. Then another guy robs a bank and gets away with it. Then a guy steals a loaf of bread.Should the law ignore that crime?I say,"yes"!If that prevents the bank robbers from being elected to government office.
Anyway, as I said previously Obama was fast tracked because he gave us the illusion that we can vote against the Republicans war on freedom.

*Well I guess the Federal Reserve being a privately held company is not exactly a branch of government. Geithner (President of the federal reserve, NY. 2003- 2009 when Wall Street and the banks caused our economic collapse) became Obama's Secretary of the Treasury 2009-2013.


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ruveyn
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15 Jun 2013, 10:28 pm

AspE wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
I believe that the patriot act and its expansion under Obama is about controlling us when oil is used up and the consequences of global warming become more apparent. They know that when the s**t goes down the masses will feel vulnerable and finally revolt.

The thing is, when the oil runs out, one consequence will be the loss of central control. We won't have an electronic trail to follow because we won't have the internet, which requires a reliable electrical grid.


When the oil runs out we will have natural gas extracted by fracking. In addition there is enough goo in the tar sands of canada to keep North America lit for 250 years. And we have enough coal for a thousand years. So if the oil "runs out" there will be plenty of things to substitute for it.

ruveyn



wittgenstein
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15 Jun 2013, 10:49 pm

OK! :D


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ArrantPariah
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16 Jun 2013, 1:47 pm

Everyone's favourite Atheist is with you on this

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etm4dHdaApo[/youtube]



Dox47
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16 Jun 2013, 4:24 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Regardless, he's better than Bush, and Bush was never impeached.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Better than Bush is debatable (Bush didn't extrajudicially assassinate people and then classify the legal theory allowing him to do that, among other things), and so what? Some criminals get away with it, so we shouldn't even bother trying to bring them to justice anymore?


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Dox47
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16 Jun 2013, 4:25 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:
Well it is compelling because presidents aren't supposed to be impeached every time the voters get it wrong. They're supposed to be punished at the following election. That's how it's worked with so many other terrible presidents. Why should we make an exception for Barrack Obama?


But Presidents are supposed to be impeached if they break the law, and there is plenty of evidence that Obama has done just that.


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ruveyn
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16 Jun 2013, 4:29 pm

Dox47 wrote:
seaturtleisland wrote:
Well it is compelling because presidents aren't supposed to be impeached every time the voters get it wrong. They're supposed to be punished at the following election. That's how it's worked with so many other terrible presidents. Why should we make an exception for Barrack Obama?


But Presidents are supposed to be impeached if they break the law, and there is plenty of evidence that Obama has done just that.


To impeach or not to impeach is purely a political question.



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16 Jun 2013, 4:34 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
seaturtleisland wrote:
Well it is compelling because presidents aren't supposed to be impeached every time the voters get it wrong. They're supposed to be punished at the following election. That's how it's worked with so many other terrible presidents. Why should we make an exception for Barrack Obama?


But Presidents are supposed to be impeached if they break the law, and there is plenty of evidence that Obama has done just that.


To impeach or not to impeach is purely a political question.


Indeed.

"An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history."

- Gerald Ford, as House minority leader



Dox47
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16 Jun 2013, 4:58 pm

ruveyn wrote:
To impeach or not to impeach is purely a political question.


I'm not talking about the probability here, I'm talking about the appropriateness and desirability. Considering the oath of office he took and what Obama has subsequently done to the Constitution, he most certainly deserves to be removed from office, regardless of the politics.


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16 Jun 2013, 6:59 pm

Raptor wrote:
Yes.
1. Because he deserves it for the charges stated above.
2. The quarreling over it in this forum will be entertaining.


Do you REALLY want to see the U.S. devolve into the mess that is modern day Italy? If you think Obama is a bad leader, you should have seen the fun some of the Communist leaders is some of the cities in Italy had when the attempted to govern over their constituents.



ruveyn
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16 Jun 2013, 8:36 pm

Dox47 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
To impeach or not to impeach is purely a political question.


I'm not talking about the probability here, I'm talking about the appropriateness and desirability. Considering the oath of office he took and what Obama has subsequently done to the Constitution, he most certainly deserves to be removed from office, regardless of the politics.


The only opinion on that issue that matters lies in the House or Representatives. Your opinion on the matter is naught.



Erlonman
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16 Jun 2013, 10:27 pm

I do agree that Obama should be impeached, but also agree with Noam Chomsky regarding what he said in 1990.

The gist of what Chomsky discussed was that, if every postwar president had been judged at the Nuremberg trials, they would be found guilty and given the appropriate punishment. I hold Obama and his administration to this standard as well.

Here is the text of Chomsky's speech.