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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Nov 2013, 10:07 am

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.

You know that's really cold, narrow minded and unfair. You should laud my ability to put myself in the mystical mode of the Bible. Instead you mock it.


I understand, but honesty is necessary when it comes to these matters.

No individual should claim any special powers or mental abilities or secret divine knowledge without providing evidence to back them up.

I just realized the Mormons have added more. Are they the only ones?



MCalavera
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28 Nov 2013, 10:11 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.

You know that's really cold, narrow minded and unfair. You should laud my ability to put myself in the mystical mode of the Bible. Instead you mock it.


I understand, but honesty is necessary when it comes to these matters.

No individual should claim any special powers or mental abilities or secret divine knowledge without providing evidence to back them up.

I just realized the Mormons have added more. Are they the only ones?


Well, there's Islam.

And Seventh-day Adventists have Ellen G. White's added writings as well.

Maybe you can be the liberal modern version of Ellen G. White.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Nov 2013, 10:42 am

MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.

You know that's really cold, narrow minded and unfair. You should laud my ability to put myself in the mystical mode of the Bible. Instead you mock it.


I understand, but honesty is necessary when it comes to these matters.

No individual should claim any special powers or mental abilities or secret divine knowledge without providing evidence to back them up.

I just realized the Mormons have added more. Are they the only ones?


Well, there's Islam.

And Seventh-day Adventists have Ellen G. White's added writings as well.

Maybe you can be the liberal modern version of Ellen G. White.

I don't want to be just another Book of Mormon or Ellen White. What I want is entry into the KJV.



MCalavera
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28 Nov 2013, 11:46 am

What do you mean by "entry"?



beneficii
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28 Nov 2013, 3:16 pm

MCalavera wrote:
beneficii wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5771421.html#5771421


Maybe you should read my first few posts then in this thread.


To avoid confusion, I wouldn't say delusion.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Nov 2013, 3:21 pm

MCalavera wrote:
What do you mean by "entry"?

I want to be included in that just like the new testament is included with the old. Mine can be the Newer Testament.



beneficii
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28 Nov 2013, 3:32 pm

adifferentname wrote:
beneficii wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.



Sounds rather delusional to me. I'd like you to explain what you understand the psychiatric definition of a delusion to be. Unless, of course, you meant to imply that these feelings are hallucinations - which I'm quite content to accept.


It's a bit controversial, but in the study of psychopathology many researchers say that delusions are a completely different animal from normal beliefs:

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/183/4/285.long

Those who disagree with the researchers on that still mention that there is still a "continuum" from normal beliefs to delusions.

Saying that belief in God is delusional, as in a psychiatric disorder, ignores the context in which such beliefs appear.


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Bezeone
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28 Nov 2013, 6:19 pm

I don't see Christianity as a delusion. Seeing as the Earth is under going what was said in prophecy, I don't see how it is delusional. Delusional is the fact people keep missing is that Satan was the snake (or manipulated it) in the garden!



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28 Nov 2013, 9:52 pm

Bezeone wrote:
I don't see Christianity as a delusion. Seeing as the Earth is under going what was said in prophecy, I don't see how it is delusional. Delusional is the fact people keep missing is that Satan was the snake (or manipulated it) in the garden!


What about the above is NOT delusional. Which prophecies? what evidence? By Satan, you mean the angel who although god is all knowing, all powerful and ever present, thought it plausible that he could usurp the all powful god. Who it seems was not so all powerful to vanquish him as demonstrated by the fact that an all seeing god would have had the prescience to know that once cast out lucifer was going to land on his greatest creation and screw it all up. Thererfore it can reasonable assumed that given this knowledge god would have destroyed lucifer if he were indeed all powerful. Not to mention how did god not know before he created lucifer ......,.,,,,,The list of absurdities required to invent the devil in light of gods omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence is almost boundless.


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28 Nov 2013, 10:37 pm

beneficii wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
beneficii wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.



Sounds rather delusional to me. I'd like you to explain what you understand the psychiatric definition of a delusion to be. Unless, of course, you meant to imply that these feelings are hallucinations - which I'm quite content to accept.


It's a bit controversial, but in the study of psychopathology many researchers say that delusions are a completely different animal from normal beliefs:

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/183/4/285.long

Those who disagree with the researchers on that still mention that there is still a "continuum" from normal beliefs to delusions.

Saying that belief in God is delusional, as in a psychiatric disorder, ignores the context in which such beliefs appear.


And context was what I looking at.

With my respect to Ana, I don't consider her beliefs to just be normal beliefs. She has this "special chosen one" sort of belief which is not really common among believers (as far as I know).



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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28 Nov 2013, 10:39 pm

MCalavera wrote:
beneficii wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
beneficii wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I have a Jesus thing going on, that I am connected to the true ideas of Jesus lost to the ravages of time.


Or maybe it could just be a delusion.


Please read my post. Note that by delusion, if you mean it in a psychiatric sense, you are not using it correctly.



Sounds rather delusional to me. I'd like you to explain what you understand the psychiatric definition of a delusion to be. Unless, of course, you meant to imply that these feelings are hallucinations - which I'm quite content to accept.


It's a bit controversial, but in the study of psychopathology many researchers say that delusions are a completely different animal from normal beliefs:

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/183/4/285.long

Those who disagree with the researchers on that still mention that there is still a "continuum" from normal beliefs to delusions.

Saying that belief in God is delusional, as in a psychiatric disorder, ignores the context in which such beliefs appear.


And context was what I looking at.

With my respect to Ana, I don't consider her beliefs to just be normal beliefs. She has this "special chosen one" sort of belief which is not really common among believers (as far as I know).

You misunderstand. I think we all the special chosen ones and should all get to contribute to the KJV of the Bible.



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29 Nov 2013, 2:30 am

slickbacksteve wrote:
arent both sides delusional when you look at it?

Most critical thinking atheists will not say they know about unknown things they will simply state "I don't know" what they will not do is state"I dont know so I will invoke god" The reson they do not invoke god is because on all rational levels there is no need to.

slickbacksteve wrote:
if believing in a god above helps someone on a personal level live a better/happier life then so be it
Indeed, but unfortunately this is seldom the case, the majority of god worshippers are either in fear of their deity, or they see the need to force their deities edicts upon others. Rare indeed is the devout believer who is unopposing on others and is not in some way fearful of their deity.


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29 Nov 2013, 3:31 am

Nambo wrote:
Er, no, guess you didnt read my post, in your view its a psychological thing, I was relating how it wasn't.


Er, no, guess he did, this thread is on the nature of delusion and from what I and MCalavera have read suggests your attributing experiences that can easily be attributed to psychological "distrubances" to a personal visit from god suggest a great deal of delusion.


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29 Nov 2013, 3:45 am

AngelRho wrote:
This has long been addressed and settled. The fact it keeps rearing it's ugly head in its death throes is just plain amusing.

1. Everything that had a beginning must have a cause.
2. The universe had a beginning and so must have a cause.
3. God is the uncaused Cause that created everything.
4. It is unnecessary for God to have a cause, since God is infinite and therefore has no beginning or ending.



I could not agree more, the answer you give is plain amusing. For pities sake read the bible as if you had never heard the stories, had never been indoctrinated, had never heard of Jesus. Read the stories not as someone from before the age of science and reason, not as someone who has no scientific explanation for pestilence, plague, weather events, astronomical events etc, read it not as an illiterate scared serf but instead read it as someone who is educated and does know the shape of the earth, has knowledge of germ theory, genetics and weather patterns, understands gravity, has a passing knowledge of E=MC2 and the wonders of quantum theory. Read it in the light of archaeology and historical record. In short read the book with a contemporary, critically thinking, mind replete with all the astounding knowledge we now have regarding the natural world and the universe in which it sits.


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29 Nov 2013, 8:02 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Bezeone wrote:
I don't see Christianity as a delusion. Seeing as the Earth is under going what was said in prophecy, I don't see how it is delusional. Delusional is the fact people keep missing is that Satan was the snake (or manipulated it) in the garden!


What about the above is NOT delusional. Which prophecies? what evidence? By Satan, you mean the angel who although god is all knowing, all powerful and ever present, thought it plausible that he could usurp the all powful god. Who it seems was not so all powerful to vanquish him as demonstrated by the fact that an all seeing god would have had the prescience to know that once cast out lucifer was going to land on his greatest creation and screw it all up. Thererfore it can reasonable assumed that given this knowledge god would have destroyed lucifer if he were indeed all powerful. Not to mention how did god not know before he created lucifer ......,.,,,,,The list of absurdities required to invent the devil in light of gods omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence is almost boundless.


Satan was rather unique from the other angels. His rank, power, and beauty far surpassed the other angels, though, this introduced a major problem. I still ponder this, but this is when sin was forming within Satan in the form of pride. When pride becomes a main priority, it then starts to cloud your intelligence. Satan then thought up an idea of how Heaven should run and wanted to take over. Using his supreme cunning skills, he convinced a third of the angels to join his cause.

Now, if God had just outright destroyed Satan right there, then there would be a problem. The angels would then outright fear God, as they would believe God did it because God felt challenged by the idea. Thus, God would not receive genuine worship of respect, but rather of fear. War was fought, and they were cast from Heaven, landed here, and you know the rest.

Because the Earth belongs to Satan, he then commenced the plan he thought of. Now, we won't have to wait that much longer, because his plan is nearly complete. What we deal with now is some of it, not the whole dish. Thus, now every angel can see for their self how Satan's plan worked out. (Not well...)

As to why Satan was even spawned to begin with, well... there was freewill with what happened with Satan. As for the prophecies, that will require a P.M. to not hijack the topic.



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29 Nov 2013, 8:26 pm

Bezeone wrote:
Satan was rather unique from the other angels. His rank, power, and beauty far surpassed the other angels, though, this introduced a major problem. I still ponder this, but this is when sin was forming within Satan in the form of pride. When pride becomes a main priority, it then starts to cloud your intelligence. Satan then thought up an idea of how Heaven should run and wanted to take over. Using his supreme cunning skills, he convinced a third of the angels to join his cause.

Now, if God had just outright destroyed Satan right there, then there would be a problem. The angels would then outright fear God, as they would believe God did it because God felt challenged by the idea. Thus, God would not receive genuine worship of respect, but rather of fear. War was fought, and they were cast from Heaven, landed here, and you know the rest.

Because the Earth belongs to Satan, he then commenced the plan he thought of. Now, we won't have to wait that much longer, because his plan is nearly complete. What we deal with now is some of it, not the whole dish. Thus, now every angel can see for their self how Satan's plan worked out. (Not well...)

As to why Satan was even spawned to begin with, well... there was freewill with what happened with Satan. As for the prophecies, that will require a P.M. to not hijack the topic.


Here's a prophecy for you, Matthew 7 verse 6