todays outrageous fact: gun silencer sales

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Raptor
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04 May 2014, 7:50 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Idiots with guns and people who have no problems giving guns to idiots are the reason we need firearm regulation, not safe and educated owners.

Still laboring under the illusion that we have no firearm regulations and/or these new ones you want will save the world.
Same story - different thread.

And you still assuming that I don't believe that there are any firearms regulations. It isn't about saving the world; it is about making it safer.

sonofghandi wrote:

Idiots with guns and people who have no problems giving guns to idiots

Hey, I met the guy giving guns away to idiots. He has one for you.

Quote:

are the reason we need firearm regulation

Clearly implies you think we don't have any regulations.

Quote:

not safe and educated owners.

Yeah, why have safe and educated owners when you can have laws to be arbitrarily enforced and misapplied.
I rest my case.

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sonofghandi
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04 May 2014, 8:03 pm

Raptor wrote:

Hey, I met the guy giving guns away to idiots. He has one for you.

What an excellent and well thought out argument.

Raptor wrote:

Quote:

are the reason we need firearm regulation

Clearly implies you think we don't have any regulations.

We have plenty of regulations, and most of them are poorly thought out, poorly written, and ineffective. Which is why we need actual regulations written by people who know something about firearms rather than people who are too terrified to touch one.

Raptor wrote:

Yeah, why have safe and educated owners when you can have laws to be arbitrarily enforced and misapplied.

I would love to have safe and educated gun owners. You seem to still be under the impression that I have a problem with people who know how to use a firearm, which is not true. I have a problem with people owning guns that do not know how to use them.

Raptor wrote:

I rest my case.

What case? You have not presented one.

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Raptor
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04 May 2014, 8:23 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Hey, I met the guy giving guns away to idiots. He has one for you.

What an excellent and well thought out argument.

If the shoe fits.....

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

are the reason we need firearm regulation

Clearly implies you think we don't have any regulations.

Most of the people that actually know guns won't be a party to something that's going to f**k them, obviously.

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Yeah, why have safe and educated owners when you can have laws to be arbitrarily enforced and misapplied.

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I rest my case.

What case? You have not presented one.

Well, say what you will but at least it's not "I want this and I want that but I can't justify it. I just want it".

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DevKit
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04 May 2014, 10:32 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Idiots with guns and people who have no problems giving guns to idiots are the reason we need firearm regulation, not safe and educated owners.

Still laboring under the illusion that we have no firearm regulations and/or these new ones you want will save the world.
Same story - different thread.

And you still assuming that I don't believe that there are any firearms regulations. It isn't about saving the world; it is about making it safer.

You cant regulate stupidity.

sonofghandi
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05 May 2014, 1:33 am

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Hey, I met the guy giving guns away to idiots. He has one for you.

What an excellent and well thought out argument.

If the shoe fits.....

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

are the reason we need firearm regulation

Clearly implies you think we don't have any regulations.

Most of the people that actually know guns won't be a party to something that's going to f**k them, obviously.

Did you ever stop to think that if they were involved in the process at all that perhaps that would not be the case?

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Yeah, why have safe and educated owners when you can have laws to be arbitrarily enforced and misapplied.

And the safest places to shoot you shy away from because, according to you, there are black helicopter types there that, according to you, talk loud and irritate you into wanting to SHOOT them. Should I go back and find that?[/quote]

No need. I have openly and freely admitted such, and if it makes you feel superior, I'll do it again. I feel that avoiding some of the few people that make me angry enough to feel like doing something violent is a responsible thing to do.

And in my opinion, the safest place to shoot is in the woods when you are hunting.

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I rest my case.

What case? You have not presented one.

Well, say what you will but at least it's not "I want this and I want that but I can't justify it. I just want it".[/quote]

I have frequently stated my opinions and why I have them, which you dismiss as wrong and say means there is no justification for having them. At least my opinions are stated as opinions.

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DevKit
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05 May 2014, 2:26 am

JHC what a stupid argument this. Think of how stupid you have to be to have this debate. If you look at the numbers of deaths in this country what we need to do is keep cars away from stupid people more than guns.

You already have to study, take a test and pass it and have good eyes and you can lose your license lots of ways. And yet look at all the stupid accidents and deaths there are from cars. You have to be an idiot to you think you can regulate stupidity.

01001011
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05 May 2014, 2:54 am

DevKit wrote:

JHC what a stupid argument this. Think of how stupid you have to be to have this debate. If you look at the numbers of deaths in this country what we need to do is keep cars away from stupid people more than guns.

You already have to study, take a test and pass it and have good eyes and you can lose your license lots of ways. And yet look at all the stupid accidents and deaths there are from cars. You have to be an idiot to you think you can regulate stupidity.

My bold. Most deaths caused by guns are NOT accidents. Moreover, cares are much more useful than guns. Fail.

ZenDen
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05 May 2014, 9:47 am

The_Walrus wrote:

ZenDen wrote:

He also doesn't mention Portugal de-criminalizing drugs like heroin, cocaine and LSD and how that may tie in to them having the highest HIV rates in Western Europe; I wonder why?

This thinking is flawed.

Portugal had a massive drug problem, particularly heroin, that was causing a HIV epidemic. This was particularly because heroin used ballooned later in Portugal than other European countries, so the height of heroin use coincided with the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic. Also, it's a Catholic country...

To counter this, the politicians decriminalised possession of small amounts of drugs and provided methadone to addicts.

Heroin use has since dropped.

See here for a very detailed analysis.

From the above online analysis you recommend, is the following example which you didn't mention in your post................

"In contrast, Pinto claimed that post-reform Portugal
fared very poorly relative to the rest of Europe. Evidence
put forward was that ‘behind Luxembourg, Portugal
has the highest rate of consistent drug users and
IV heroin dependents’ in Europe [1]. He also noted
that Portugal had one of the worst levels of drug-related
deaths, prevalence of drug-related HIV and that it was
the ‘only European country’ that experienced a rise in
‘drug-related homicides’ between 2001 and 2006. He
thus concluded that far from a success, the Portuguese
decriminalisation (sic) was a disastrous failure."

..........................which again points out the error in "we're better" type of arguments.

And this also shows us is people will always argue. I hoped that by showing the OP "we all live in glass houses buddy"
that it might engender a feeling of "commonality" and avoid the stupid name calling and etc.

Thanks for posting as it confirms my effort.

denny

ZenDen
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05 May 2014, 10:02 am

In a school class a long long time ago we were given a statement"

"Indians always walk in single file; I saw one doing it once."

To me this typifies the attitude of many anti-gun posters.

"I once saw/heard about someone doing something with a gun and it frightened me."
OR
"I just don't trust other people's judgment or motives."

What it always seems to boil down to is..............nothing more than unreasonable personal fear.

No reason to discuss statistics when you can claim fear as your main operative.

A total waste of time trying to reason with frightened people.

denny

ModusPonens
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05 May 2014, 10:57 am

ZenDen wrote:

Well, this is my last post on this thread _ and probably on WP.

The reason why I can comment on american politics and not the other way around is because Portugal imports a gigantic amount of american TV and cinema. That includes news and documentaries. For example, I can say 30 american states in 2 minutes (or less), by memory. I'm almost certain that half of americans can't do that. I would even bet that 3 out of 4 can't do it. And I never learned this in school.

I met a few good people here, very good people. But it's not enough to keep me around. I'm utterly disgusted by the rampant fascism in the politics section. And, in the end, it's completely pointless to be angry at this. Just a waste of time and inner peace.

Anyway try to learn something from this clip called "George Carlin - "Who Really Contorls America"". If the mods don't censor, here's the youtube link:

Who Really Controls America

sonofghandi
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05 May 2014, 11:26 am

ZenDen wrote:

No reason to discuss statistics when you can claim fear as your main operative.

A total waste of time trying to reason with frightened people.

denny

That is the NRA's motivating mantra as well. "any laws = gun grabs"

Both extremes on this issue (and on most issues) are motivated by unreasonable fear more than probability shifts or comparative data.

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Raptor
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05 May 2014, 11:32 am

ModusPonens wrote:

The reason why I can comment on american politics and not the other way around.

You can comment on anything you want and so can we, like it or not.

Quote:

For example, I can say 30 american states in 2 minutes (or less), by memory. I'm almost certain that half of americans can't do that. I would even bet that 3 out of 4 can't do it. And I never learned this in school.

Get real.

Quote:

I'm utterly disgusted by the rampant fascism in the politics section.

Rampant facism?!
And who might those fascists be? Don't be shy, just say it.

Quote:

Anyway try to learn something from this clip called "George Carlin - "Who Really Contorls America"". If the mods don't censor, here's the youtube link:

Carlin should have just stuck to being a comedian.

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ZenDen
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05 May 2014, 2:51 pm

ModusPonens wrote:

ZenDen wrote:

"And, in the end, it's completely pointless to be angry at this. Just a waste of time and inner peace."

I thought it might be appropriate to start my post agreeing with your statement. Hopefully we can discuss rationally, any topic that comes our way. I guess fascism, in all it's ugliness, means different things to different people, but hopefully that won't stop you from staying with WP and ignoring politics as much as possible.

"Portugal imports a gigantic amount of american TV and cinema. That includes news and documentaries."

Really?????? You base your reasoning upon TV and movie images? Personally I couldn't pick a worse source of information than headline/money seeking benders of the truth. Maybe your media is more truthful and less sensation prone than our sold-out industry??? What you read may not be off 180 degrees, but at least 90 degrees most of the time.

If you ever found your way to Northern California I'd be able to show you better, and hopefully a little more research and talk with people actually living here, the way I'm able to learn more of Portugal just communicating with you, might give you a better/different/more accurate view of us.

And thanks for your sincere input. I hope you don't leave.

denny

Raptor
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05 May 2014, 3:15 pm

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Hey, I met the guy giving guns away to idiots. He has one for you.

What an excellent and well thought out argument.

If the shoe fits.....

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

are the reason we need firearm regulation

Clearly implies you think we don't have any regulations.

Most of the people that actually know guns won't be a party to something that's going to f**k them, obviously.

Did you ever stop to think that if they were involved in the process at all that perhaps that would not be the case?

Did you ever stop to think that gun control isn't about crime?

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

Yeah, why have safe and educated owners when you can have laws to be arbitrarily enforced and misapplied.

No need. I have openly and freely admitted such, and if it makes you feel superior, I'll do it again. I feel that avoiding some of the few people that make me angry enough to feel like doing something violent is a responsible thing to do.

And in my opinion, the safest place to shoot is in the woods when you are hunting.

What about recreational shooting?
What about sighting in a rifle?
What about IDPA, IPSC, USPSA, NRA high power or smallbore, trap, skeet, sporing clays, etc....?
I've come closer to being shot while hunting than at the shooting range. But then again I don't allow myself to be pwn3d by those very few black helicopter people at the shooting ranges, either.

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I rest my case.

What case? You have not presented one.

Well, say what you will but at least it's not "I want this and I want that but I can't justify it. I just want it".

I have frequently stated my opinions and why I have them, which you dismiss as wrong and say means there is no justification for having them. At least my opinions are stated as opinions.

Opinions are like buttholes......

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sonofghandi
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05 May 2014, 4:31 pm

Raptor wrote:

Quote:

Did you ever stop to think that if they were involved in the process at all that perhaps that would not be the case?

Did you ever stop to think that gun control isn't about crime?

Did you ever bother to notice that violent crime is the least of my worries when it comes to firearms? I have some issues with gun crimes, but they are more related to trafficking than home invasions or armed robbery.

Raptor wrote:

Quote:

And in my opinion, the safest place to shoot is in the woods when you are hunting.

Perhaps you need to find a safer place to hunt. Or perhaps become a proponent of stricter firearm safety education requirements for a hunting license. I don't need to go to a range to sight in a rifle. And I don't think any of those are particularly dangerous. I was merely stating the safest place, and did so with the qualifier stating that it is only my opinion.

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

sonofghandi wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I rest my case.

What case? You have not presented one.

Well, say what you will but at least it's not "I want this and I want that but I can't justify it. I just want it".

I have frequently stated my opinions and why I have them, which you dismiss as wrong and say means there is no justification for having them. At least my opinions are stated as opinions.

Opinions are like buttholes......

^Perhaps something you should remember when you state your opinions as if they were the indisputable word of god.

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The_Walrus
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05 May 2014, 5:13 pm

ZenDen wrote:

I recommended that paper because it is reasonably balanced; it compares the approaches of one advocate of decriminalisation and one critic. It then provides some meta-analysis.

Simply picking out the uncritical summaries of Greenwald or Pinto totally misses the point. If you want to save time, then you should skip to the conclusion. The relevant section is:

Quote:

Considered analysis of the two most divergent accounts reveals that the Portuguese reform warrants neither the praise nor the condemnation of being a ‘resounding success’ or a ‘disastrous failure’, and that these divergent policy conclusions were derived from selective use of the evidence base that belie the nuanced, albeit largely positive, implications from this reform.

When was the last time a respectable meta-analysis concluded that US or UK drugs policy was "largely positive"?

If one wishes to rely solely on Greenwald or Pinto, they are free to do so - they just aren't getting a sober, unbiased analysis, merely cherrypicked statistics.

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